Beverage puzzle: unfiltered sake

SFJoe

Joe Dougherty
Sushi is not a very frequent part of my diet--it's either a big splurge in NYC or something I get on the run to or from a gate at one of the places in SFO (I prefer the one in the UA terminal). But lately I've had a couple of decent unfiltered sakes (Nigori?) to accompany my meals.

I won't post TNs, but what I wonder is, how do they stabilize the suspended yeast against autolysis and reduction? Do they pasteurize the hell out of them? They don't smell of SO2, at any rate.

Does anyone understand the process?

Thanks,

Joe
 
have no idea about the science of the issue, but i do enthusiastically recommend going to saka gura on 43rd for your sake desires. not great sushi, but everything else is awesome, and the sake is great and varied...
 
unfermented rice solids

Jim's got it right.....but I'll add that not all Nigori (cloudy) -zakes are pasteurized. I doubt much if any of the unpasteurized sakes make it to the US, as it needs to be kept pretty well chilled...which is how some of the few aged sakes are aged as well. There is also a Nigori-genshu (which is cask strength), both stronger and sweeter...and a bottled-while-still-fermenting nigori-zake called Kasseishu.
 
So I know very little about sake, and I also have a question.

There's a flavor i tend to dislike in in sakes, and it seems prevalent in really inexpensive sakes. I'm not sure how to describe it -- gluey, library paste-like? Is this something that relates to degree of polish of rice? Is this something from kernel of a grain of rice? Something else?
 
originally posted by Bwood:
So I know very little about sake, and I also have a question.

There's a flavor i tend to dislike in in sakes, and it seems prevalent in really inexpensive sakes. I'm not sure how to describe it -- gluey, library paste-like? Is this something that relates to degree of polish of rice? Is this something from kernel of a grain of rice? Something else?

There are proteins, fats and amino acids surrounding the core of starch in a grain of rice, so it's possible to equate off-putting flavors in sakes with lower milling rates, but not across the board (and also, one man's "character" may be another man's "glue"). If you haven't already, try a couple of "dai-ginjo" level sakes and see if you get the same flavors you described...they have the highest amount of polish (often listed on the back of the bottle as a percentage number reflecting the amount of original grain remaining after polishing).
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
unfermented rice solids

Jim's got it right.....but I'll add that not all Nigori (cloudy) -zakes are pasteurized. I doubt much if any of the unpasteurized sakes make it to the US, as it needs to be kept pretty well chilled...which is how some of the few aged sakes are aged as well. There is also a Nigori-genshu (which is cask strength), both stronger and sweeter...and a bottled-while-still-fermenting nigori-zake called Kasseishu.

The warehouse I use is temperature controlled, but a Sake importer has built a walk-in refrigerator in the warehouse that is used to store the best sake at lower than cellar temperature. So at least some of it must be unfiltered and unpasteurised.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
originally posted by Bwood:
So I know very little about sake, and I also have a question.

There's a flavor i tend to dislike in in sakes, and it seems prevalent in really inexpensive sakes. I'm not sure how to describe it -- gluey, library paste-like? Is this something that relates to degree of polish of rice? Is this something from kernel of a grain of rice? Something else?

There are proteins, fats and amino acids surrounding the core of starch in a grain of rice, so it's possible to equate off-putting flavors in sakes with lower milling rates, but not across the board (and also, one man's "character" may be another man's "glue"). If you haven't already, try a couple of "dai-ginjo" level sakes and see if you get the same flavors you described...they have the highest amount of polish (often listed on the back of the bottle as a percentage number reflecting the amount of original grain remaining after polishing).
If I'm remembering correctly, and it's possible I'm not, the practice of heating cheap sake came about in response to this "glue" flavor because when heated whatever causes it (I'm no scientist) break down into something sweeter.
 
originally posted by Bwood:
So I know very little about sake, and I also have a question.

There's a flavor i tend to dislike in in sakes, and it seems prevalent in really inexpensive sakes. I'm not sure how to describe it -- gluey, library paste-like? Is this something that relates to degree of polish of rice? Is this something from kernel of a grain of rice? Something else?

JB - is this the same reason you don't like Rhone whites? (I find some can have this gluey taste to them)
 
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Bwood:
So I know very little about sake, and I also have a question.

There's a flavor i tend to dislike in in sakes, and it seems prevalent in really inexpensive sakes. I'm not sure how to describe it -- gluey, library paste-like? Is this something that relates to degree of polish of rice? Is this something from kernel of a grain of rice? Something else?

JB - is this the same reason you don't like Rhone whites? (I find some can have this gluey taste to them)

Don't like most Rhone white wines. Hmm, I don't know. I guess I assumed it was often a balance issue. I'll keep that in mind next time I try one.
 
I had a conversation with a Japanese colleague a while back about Sak. He said that the really cheap stuff, the sort of things college kids would buy, was actually made of powdered rice.

With the better grades you get into terroir and stuff like that. Certainly you get flavors from the whole grain of rice.

I like the different sorts of Sakes I have tried. I have friends who are totally enthusiastic about the milk white Nigori sake. It's OK but I don't exactly get what they see in it. And some of the high end Junmai Daiginjo sakes can be rather sweet, kind of like drinking an Auslese.

For an inexpensive sak to drink warm with good sushi my current "go to" is the Gekkeikan black and gold. Evidently it is a Junmai Ginjo -- and costs about $16.

Gekkeikan_Black_Gold_Sake.jpg
F
 
originally posted by Oliver McCrum:
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
unfermented rice solids

Jim's got it right.....but I'll add that not all Nigori (cloudy) -zakes are pasteurized. I doubt much if any of the unpasteurized sakes make it to the US, as it needs to be kept pretty well chilled...which is how some of the few aged sakes are aged as well. There is also a Nigori-genshu (which is cask strength), both stronger and sweeter...and a bottled-while-still-fermenting nigori-zake called Kasseishu.

The warehouse I use is temperature controlled, but a Sake importer has built a walk-in refrigerator in the warehouse that is used to store the best sake at lower than cellar temperature. So at least some of it must be unfiltered and unpasteurised.

Premium pasteurized sakes often get shipped and stored chilled, so it's not a straight across equation that refrigerated storage = presence of unpasteurized sake (and most unfiltered sakes are pasteurized). Sakaya in NY brings in a lot of interesting sakes to the US, including 2 or 3 nama (unpasteurized) sakes, out of 100 or so. Another importer's site I checked showed zero nama-zakes out of 25 imported, so somewhere between "not much" and "some" seems reasonably accurate. On a side note, a good friend is here in Japan this week doing an internship at a sake brewery....he says he drinks mostly nama-zake when he is here, because of the scarcity back in the US. Maybe it's a demand issue, coupled with an extra handling difficulty issue.
 
Some additional points to throw out here...

-The white cloudiness is, as others have said, dissolved, semi-dissolved rice solids.

-Nigori zakes are inherently unstable since the rice solids are primarily starches, and that can be converted to sugars by the residual amylase enzymes floating around in the brew. Koji molds (Aspergillus spp.) are pretty fussy, and die off early in the ferment due to the presence of alcohol and the lack of oxygen. But the enzymes they've produced remain active for quite some time unless denatured by heat (or some other extra-ordinary measure). So, in nigori-zake the enzymes can turn starch into sugars, which the fermentation yeasts (still viable in rather large numbers) can then ferment. Because of this, the vast majority of nigori-zakes are pasteurized.

-Kasseishu is not bottled while it is actively fermenting. Or at least it's not supposed to be fermenting, since that would be in contravention of some very basic Japanese alcohol production laws. Rather, it has the potential to re-ferment since it is "active" (which is what "kassei" means).

-The term "nama zake" means "unpasterized sake". There's lots of nama-zake available which takes advantage of the same filtration technologies available to wine producers. Nigori-zake can't be sterile filtered, of course, given the cloudiness. So a bottled nama nigori-zake would have great potential for re-fermentation... in general they're quite rare.

-Other nama zakes, even if they're sterile filtered (almost all of them will be if they're being shipped any distance), still need to be refrigerated because the lack of pasteurization renders them very susceptible to temp-induced instabilities after bottling, both chemical and microbial.

-Finally, about Bwood's "glue" smell... three of the sake brewers I talked with scratched their heads over this and then said the same thing, something like: "Lots of glues are starch-based. Given the raw materials, is it possible that the 'glue' smell would more correctly be stated as a 'starch smell'"?

Cheers,
 
Bruce, I'm curious about the "kasseishu".....it's supposed to be at least somewhat bubbly, right? I read about the bottled-while-fermenting aspect in a J. Gauntner article the other day (he also mentions the caps are often punctured first to let the gas escape). I figured it was somewhat like a non-dosage bubbly.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Bruce, I'm curious about the "kasseishu".....it's supposed to be at least somewhat bubbly, right? I read about the bottled-while-fermenting aspect in a J. Gauntner article the other day (he also mentions the caps are often punctured first to let the gas escape). I figured it was somewhat like a non-dosage bubbly.

Joel:

This is more a technical detail than anything else.
Kasseishu is certainly bubbly, anything from petillant to a full on mousse. But the wine needs to have stopped fermenting (if only temporarily, if only on paper) before bottling.
From my experiences (about twenty years worth of meetings with alcohol tax officials from the local as well as the national level), the laws plainly state that it is illegal to move a fermenting must. Mid-ferm racks are illegal, delestage is illegal, starting barrel ferments in tank before going down to barrel is illegal, methode ancestrale production is illegal.
Methode champenoise production, though, is not, given that the base wine stops fermenting and is bottled before it can start again.

At least as far as I know.

Cheers,
 
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