White Chateauneuf from Texier acting weird

S

Saina Nieminen

Saina Nieminen
I managed to buy a couple bottles of the Texier Chteauneuf du Pape Blanc Vieilles Vignes 2005 because I loved it. VLM put it so well when he wrote it was electric. My first two bottles were so. But I have now recently drunk two that seemed rather oaky. I know it shouldn't see much oak, which is why I am surprised that these two recent bottles smelled more of non-Chablisienne white Burgundy with its creamy nuttiness that I immediately associate with oak. Is the strange scent simply the "strange period" that white Rhones legendarily go through? Whatever its source, the taste retains the electricity I so liked in my early bottles, so it brought a great deal of pleasure with some common white fish in beurre blanc. Should I expect the scent to come around again some time, or should I finish up my remaining two bottles quickly?
 
originally posted by Chris Coad:
Is there no end to that man's chicanery?

Um, I mean alleged chicanery, of course.
Click to expand...

Not ullaged chicanery? Not that any chicanery is good chicanery...
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
White Chateauneuf from Texier acting weirdI managed to buy a couple bottles of the Texier Chteauneuf du Pape Blanc Vieilles Vignes 2005 because I loved it. VLM put it so well when he wrote it was electric. My first two bottles were so. But I have now recently drunk two that seemed rather oaky. I know it shouldn't see much oak, which is why I am surprised that these two recent bottles smelled more of non-Chablisienne white Burgundy with its creamy nuttiness that I immediately associate with oak. Is the strange scent simply the "strange period" that white Rhones legendarily go through? Whatever its source, the taste retains the electricity I so liked in my early bottles, so it brought a great deal of pleasure with some common white fish in beurre blanc. Should I expect the scent to come around again some time, or should I finish up my remaining two bottles quickly?
Click to expand...

I wish I could offer some insight, but I haven't had this in a while and don't have any bottles in the cellar. Hopefully Eric can chime in.
 
White C9 is famous for shutting down and going through periods where the wine seems to have given up the ghost and become totally weird, only to come back at +/- 10 years of age. Not necessarily all, but many go through this phase.
 
Had the '04 for lunch yesterday and it tasted somewhat attenuated - not quite shut but also barely changed from release. Both Northern and Southern Rhone whites seem to go through a really frustrating dumb phase in my experience.
 
Lazarus-thread: I opened up one more tonight and now it smells like a grand old vintage of white Musar but has better acidity. I like it! Seriously moreish stuff now. But it seems like there is no hurry with it.
 
Maybe Eric snuck obideh and merwah into the blend? With the number of permiitted varieties already allowed in CNdP, who would notice a couple more?
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
Why ow? Old white Musar is one of the greatest wines I have experienced!
Click to expand...
I know you love it, Otto, and I'm sure you meant it as a compliment, but I suspect our Comrade seeks less va in his wines than I've sometimes had from Musar.

But I'm glad to hear the '05 is coming out of adolescence. The aging arc of white Rhones has to be one of the oddest of all.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
There has never been any va in white Musar in my experience.
Click to expand...
I withdraw my remark, then. Your experience of white Musar far exceeds mine.
 
No need to withdraw remarks. Rather I'm curious: volatility doesn't seem to be discussed with whites usually so is there something in the wine making process that makes reds more susceptible to va? and what vintages of white Musar have you had va with? I have had many of individual vintages but the white has never been much available here, so there are many years I haven't had at all.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
No need to withdraw remarks. Rather I'm curious: volatility doesn't seem to be discussed with whites usually so is there something in the wine making process that makes reds more susceptible to va? and what vintages of white Musar have you had va with? I have had many of individual vintages but the white has never been much available here, so there are many years I haven't had at all.
Click to expand...
Others with more direct knowledge can pitch in, but as a wild generality white wines have lower pH than reds and so discourage the growth of some bugs. Many other factors of course complicate the picture.

I haven't had a white Musar in ages.
 
As Joe points out, reds typically have higher pHs, which means the bugs are happier, the SO2 less effective, etc.

Maceration on skins also makes a difference with regard to VA.
Whites typically are direct to press, then at least a short debourbage time before racking to ferment. This probably reduces the populations of microbes that came in on the grapes.
Too, with fermentation on skins you get hotspots in the cap, areas where the cap can dry out if you're not diligent enough with the remontage/pigeage/delestage/full-on-swimmin-nekkid-in-the-soup. High localized heat and a dry cap can give you higher VAs. Even the process of keeping the cap wet incorporates more air into the must, which might be of benefit to things like Acetobacter.
Making orange wine can give you higher VAs.

Plus, there's the tendency to have a longer post-ferm elevage in wooden cooperage.... this introduces more O2 into the mix, and puts the wine in containers that are harder to keep free of bugs. And it just makes QC harder in general.

I've often found the Musar whites to have a good bit of VA. I dislike noticeable VAs in wines, yet can usually make an exception for Musar. Don't know why that is.
I don't seem to be alone in this, though. A few years back I was attending a conference in Napa where speakers included Serge Hochar and one of my old UCDavis enology profs. At lunchtime a long counter was set up with a lot of old Musar on hand. I was surprised to see my old prof bellying up to the bar and obviously enjoying the Musar. I kidded him by saying "But Roger, what about the VA, what about the Brett?!?" He just smiled and said "What can I say?.... it all works."

And the times they are a-changin'
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top