Oldest Vines in Burgundy?

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
So, if there's all this quiet love for Girardin, then why the bad rep?
Click to expand...

The younger bottles show more oak than most of us would like.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Question about proportions: The heated discussion of glass price vs bottle price is not relevant for non-drinkers nor for bottle drinkers. I am curious, for those who have restaurant experience, what % of diners is that?

[ I happen to fall into the glass drinker category often because when I travel for work I am usually alone at dinner. But, other than consultants and traveling salesmen, how big a slice of the restaurant pie is that? ]

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Every restaurant is different. Location (on a shopping thoroughfare? in a museum?), features (outdoor terrace?), services offered (lunch? brunch?) larger geographic and demographic trends (single ladies? single businessmen?), time of year (summer?), shape of the wine list (lots of options by the glass? half glasses offered?), makeup of the wine list (lots of recognizable names by the glass?), layout of the wine list (explanation or description of some sort is given for the wines by the glass?), listing items that cause excitement (hard to find culty wine offered by the glass? something in large format offered by the glass?), function of the bar (frequent pre-dinner meet up place?), level of training and awareness of the staff (thinking about a glass of sauternes with that foie gras? how about a moscato d'asti with the sorbet?), leanings of management (encouraging of small tastes to undecided guests?), level of staffing (someone is right there to ask me if I want another glass when mine has gone empty?), corkage policy (no corkage allowed?), and length of time a party has to stay at the bar before being seated (the restaurant doesn't take reservations and only seats complete parties?) all would have an effect on the amount of wine by the glass sales a restaurant sees as a percentage of gross revenue. I would hazard that everything I have listed in parenthesis would encourage by the glass sales as a percentage.

I think that in general, the more formal of a restaurant one is talking about, the less by the glass sales figure as a percentage of revenue.
 
I do not feel that we represent typical restaurant goers. It's been a long time since, but I think some people just want a glass of wine within in a certain price range and do not care what it is.

I have friends who dine at restaurants simply because of something called "ambiance." To them, Michelin is just a tire company. These people might not even research the menu, nor ask the day before for a fax of the most current wine list(!), but just want a fun night out - quelle horreur.
 
originally posted by Joe_Perry:
I do not feel that we represent typical restaurant goers. It's been a long time since, but I think some people just want a glass of wine within in a certain price range and do not care what it is.

I have friends who dine at restaurants simply because of something called "ambiance." To them, Michelin is just a tire company. These people might not even research the menu, nor ask the day before for a fax of the most current wine list(!), but just want a fun night out - quelle horreur.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Sometimes I feel like I do not represent the average Star Trek viewer. I get the feeling some people just want to watch tv to pass the time, and do not care what is on.

I have friends who watch Star Trek without researching any of plot lines, or referencing any of the episode numbers, nor do they seem to remember which creatures Spock has mind melded with. Sometimes they don't even know what mind melding is.

But then as Jim Kirk said, I've always known I would die alone, not double brained with some dude who paints on his eyebrows.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Joe_Perry:
I do not feel that we represent typical restaurant goers. It's been a long time since, but I think some people just want a glass of wine within in a certain price range and do not care what it is.

I have friends who dine at restaurants simply because of something called "ambiance." To them, Michelin is just a tire company. These people might not even research the menu, nor ask the day before for a fax of the most current wine list(!), but just want a fun night out - quelle horreur.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Sometimes I feel like I do not represent the average Star Trek viewer. I get the feeling some people just want to watch tv to pass the time, and do not care what is on.

I have friends who watch Star Trek without researching any of plot lines, or referencing any of the episode numbers, nor do they seem to remember which creatures Spock has mind melded with. Sometimes they don't even know what mind melding is.

But then as Jim Kirk said, I've always known I would die alone, not double brained with some dude who paints on his eyebrows.
Click to expand...

Jean-Luc Picard could kick Jim Kirk's ass.

You know it's true.
 
Picard came to my restaurant awhile back, sporting a mustache.

He didn't seem to have any issue with his wine tab, but I forgot to specifically ask him.
 
I too really like girardin's 1999 bonnes mare, a wine I've had about 4 times (and own more bottles of), but haven't had since oct 2005 when it appeared to be shutting down. The 1999 beze is also outstanding.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
[ ...15 items... ]

I would hazard that everything I have listed in parenthesis would encourage by the glass sales as a percentage.

I think that in general, the more formal of a restaurant one is talking about, the less by the glass sales figure as a percentage of revenue.
Click to expand...
Thank you, Levi. I still have no answer but I feel better educated.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
[ ...15 items... ]

I would hazard that everything I have listed in parenthesis would encourage by the glass sales as a percentage.

I think that in general, the more formal of a restaurant one is talking about, the less by the glass sales figure as a percentage of revenue.
Click to expand...
Thank you, Levi. I still have no answer but I feel better educated.
Click to expand...

That's because there is no answer.

There are different models in play.

In my brothers two restaurants, both of which are a bit down-market (and out-market) from Levi's, one does about 50% in BTG sales, the other does about 20%.

There are variables that predict why this would or wouldn't be, but I don't have enough real data to successfully model it. If you could get your hands on the data, I'd happily work on figuring it out with you.
 
Girardin's red wines are perfectly good negociant examples on the whole. without setting the earth on fire. There is too much vulgar oak but it does seem to be absorbed with time. His domaine Santenays were excellent, though I gather he had to sell most of his domaine. The whites do mostly taste the same, though that's a criticism that can be fired at some far grander names.
I've had a lot of Remoissenet-the period to avoid is 1986 until the takeover, I think. Older wines at all levels can be stunning, though I always think it's important never to be tempted to pay high prices for such things-and best of all in my experience are the Avery versions. Ronald Avery never had the slightest hesitation in whacking Port, Brandy, Framboise, Cassis etc. into cuvees he felt could do with a bit of beefing up. It seemed to work pretty well at least in terms of longevity. An Avery's bottling of a particular wine will always prove to have lasted better than any other in my experience, which I wish were wider. I'm all in favour of purity but there's nothing wrong with sybaritic irony sometimes.
 
Remoissenet is not the only under-performing house in Burgundy. I can think of several other famous ones that I have tried or have heard repeated tsk-tsk'ing about (e.g., Tollot-Beaut, Giroud). Do they have interesting back-stories, too?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top