castell'in villa part 2

scottreiner

scottreiner

scott reiner
last night had the '82. right after decanting it was fabulous. alive, vibrant, simply delicious. for about an hour... after that it was still a great wine, but it had lost something. it may have recovered with time, but we were in a restaurant, so... is this the vintage speaking?

also had an '05 valentini cerasuolo. awesome, just got better and better. fruit, minerality, acidity (not extreme, but very adequate). not sure how these age, but i could imagine it getting better with some age. mmm...

as a side note, had these wines at del posto. i understand why someone would go here in the first place (after all,i went. batali, etc...). but, why would anyone ever go back. the food was ok, but nothing special at all. and at those prices the food had better be be fantastic. service was great, but the food is mediocre at best. i can't imagine what they pay in rent...
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
castell'in villa part 2last night had the '82. right after decanting it was fabulous. alive, vibrant, simply delicious. for about an hour... after that it was still a great wine, but it had lost something. it may have recovered with time, but we were in a restaurant, so... is this the vintage speaking?

also had an '05 valentini cerasuolo. awesome, just got better and better. fruit, minerality, acidity (not extreme, but very adequate). not sure how these age, but i could imagine it getting better with some age. mmm...

as a side note, had these wines at del posto. i understand why someone would go here in the first place (after all,i went. batali, etc...). but, why would anyone ever go back. the food was ok, but nothing special at all. and at those prices the food had better be be fantastic. service was great, but the food is mediocre at best. i can't imagine what they pay in rent...
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Del Posto feels like the lobby of a fancy Hyatt to me.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by scottreiner:
castell'in villa part 2last night had the '82. right after decanting it was fabulous. alive, vibrant, simply delicious. for about an hour... after that it was still a great wine, but it had lost something. it may have recovered with time, but we were in a restaurant, so... is this the vintage speaking?

also had an '05 valentini cerasuolo. awesome, just got better and better. fruit, minerality, acidity (not extreme, but very adequate). not sure how these age, but i could imagine it getting better with some age. mmm...

as a side note, had these wines at del posto. i understand why someone would go here in the first place (after all,i went. batali, etc...). but, why would anyone ever go back. the food was ok, but nothing special at all. and at those prices the food had better be be fantastic. service was great, but the food is mediocre at best. i can't imagine what they pay in rent...
Click to expand...
Del Posto feels like the lobby of a fancy Hyatt to me.
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tastes like one too...
 
The rent they pay for the space that is Del Posto is famously low for the square footage, I believe. Check the NY Times archive for details.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
The rent they pay for the space that is Del Posto is famously low for the square footage, I believe. Check the NY Times archive for details.
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So they only charge $10 by the glass for a $15 bottle of wine?

Insert emoticon of choice.
 
My girlfriend hated the place. And she was hosted there by Mario Batali, who made a great fuss over the food. It still sucked, according to her.
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
castell'in villa part 2last night had the '82. right after decanting it was fabulous. alive, vibrant, simply delicious. for about an hour... after that it was still a great wine, but it had lost something. it may have recovered with time, but we were in a restaurant, so... is this the vintage speaking?
Click to expand...

I am always very careful when decanting an old bottle like that. In Burgundy i was taught that if you decant an old bottle you run the risk to the wine taking its "last breath" very quickly. Unless a wine like that was just inexpressive in the first half glass or so, i wouldn't have decanted it. Any reason you did?
 
For what it's worth, I find the conventional wisdom -- God, I'm starting to sound like that idiot Lahart -- wrong on this point, and that old, and even very old, red Burgundies often benefit from significant aeration. Anecdotally, the '69 we drank on my birthday, for example, was timid and dying at first tasting, blossoming and not yet done doing so by the time we drained the decanter ninety (or so) minutes later. The same was true for '69 Barolo and '74 Barbaresco in the Piedmont a few years ago...last decanted (or in that case, pitchered) glass the best, long into the evening. And it's been true for a lot of other wines in the more delicate vein, as well.
 
Thor, point well made. I too have had experiences of even very old wines needing lots of air, even vigorous decanting. It just seemed to me that in this case the wine may have taken a quick dive given too much air. That or it was consumed too (or relatively) quickly given the restaurant setting and therefore it may have come full circle hours later.
 
originally posted by Thor:
For what it's worth, I find the conventional wisdom -- God, I'm starting to sound like that idiot Lahart -- wrong on this point, and that old, and even very old, red Burgundies often benefit from significant aeration. Anecdotally, the '69 we drank on my birthday, for example, was timid and dying at first tasting, blossoming and not yet done doing so by the time we drained the decanter ninety (or so) minutes later. The same was true for '69 Barolo and '74 Barbaresco in the Piedmont a few years ago...last decanted (or in that case, pitchered) glass the best, long into the evening. And it's been true for a lot of other wines in the more delicate vein, as well.
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I'm not a fan of absurdly long decants, but I think the point you make is one many of us have experienced.

I just think it may be more of a Burgundy/Barolo thing than a old wine thing. IME, long decanting is not successful with wines based on other grapes. YMMVBYABD.
 
Could very well be. Referring back to the Chauvet discussion, maybe it's a pH or tannin thing.

Long decants are often successful with dry riesling, grner, chenin, and so forth, but now we're talking whites.
 
originally posted by Thor:
Could very well be. Referring back to the Chauvet discussion, maybe it's a pH or tannin thing.

Long decants are often successful with dry riesling, grner, chenin, and so forth, but now we're talking whites.
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You know, I have a hunch that it is a pH thing.

On another board there is a very interesting idea for a tasting. I might have to do that sometime.
 
maybe it's a pH or tannin thing..
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That sounds scientific. But since we've narrowed the field to Burgundy, Nebbiolo, dry riesling, grner, chenin, we could also just say it's a Good Wine Grapes/Region thing.
 
originally posted by Matteo Mollo:
So you're saying South African chenin is both a good region and cool grape?

(Yuck, in most cases)
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Why would I be talking (or thinking) about South African chenin! :)

Not to be too snobby about things..
 
I think you kind of inferred that since we were talking about nebbiolo, pinot/burg., piedmont etc. that you were only saying (and thinking about) the classic areas/varietals. I just was saying that because i felt like you had over generalized and assumed that those classic areas are the only ones worth anything.

Now, you can tell i have little room in my cellar for SA chenin, etc. but let's not be hasty! :)
 
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