Vollenweider and Ogier

R

Rahsaan

Rahsaan
2006 Vollenweider Wolfer Goldgrube Riesling Auslese Portz
You cannot ignore the big vanilla cream botrytis leaping out of this although there is some fresh acid spritz on the finish that restrains it from being thick and unctuous. I am a sucker for thick rich BAs and TBAs but this doesnt really have that full-on texture yet it also doesnt have the refreshing characteristics of nice Auslese. And thats one in-between combo that doesnt thrill me right now. This may just be in a weird stage but Im leaning towards it being a weird vintage.

2004 Vollenweider Wolfer Goldgrube Riesling Sptlese Portz
This is much more my style at the moment. Intense fruit flavors and slightly rich yet with very fine mineral acidity and refreshing briskness. With air the flavors tilt towards sour cucumber and the structure tilts towards firm piercing acidity. Some might call this shut down and Im sure it will show more harmoniously in the future, but I would rather drink this right now than the 06 Auslese.

2007 Vollenweider Wolfer Goldgrube Riesling Sptlese Portz
Of the three, this is the one to open right now because it is intense and rich yet young and showing its succulent pleasures. Such friendly red orange fruits but with fresh and precise mineral acidity. Maybe slightly largely-sized for a sptlese but very fun, confident, expressive, and exactly what I wanted in my glass at the time. Very fun.

1999 Ogier La Rosine VdPdCR
I should have decanted this because when I got to the bottom of the bottle there was a bunch of sediment. Plus it kept gaining weight as I worked my way down. Oh well. It was nice relaxed Northern Rhone syrah that was fairly well dominated by brett but not so much that I found it offensive (and I consider myself pretty brett-sensitive). So even if I couldnt fight my way through to find the pork or the violets or the olives, there was still enough warm fruit to provide some interest besides the spicy brett. At least to me. YMMV. Plus I have a feeling were looking at noteworthy bottle variation on this one. Final verdict: fun enough with pizza but not really joyous.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan: Vollenweider and Ogier
1999 Ogier La Rosine VdPdCR Final verdict: fun enough with pizza but not really joyous.
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R, I used to absolutely love the La Rosine back when it was under $20. I enjoyed serving it blind to knowlegeable wine folks and observing them peg it as a Cote Rotie.

Unfortunately, this was one of those good things that had to end.

The La Rosine got much more expensive and, to my atrophied palate at least, fell off in quality.

Your rating is apropos.

. . . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Yixin:
La RosineWas this fake cork? My 2000s, which were all under fake cork, have behaved very strangely.
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It was real cork.

And it cost $20 a few months ago from Macarthurs.

I think Prof. Loesberg has tasted some bottles from the same source that showed a bit better.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
The La Rosine got much more expensive and, to my atrophied palate at least, fell off in quality.
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For your palate, in what vintages did the decline happen? Any idea why?

I know more than a few folks around here have talked with the Ogiers about production. (Including myself but I can't remember a damned thing other than the fact that as a meager student the only thing I felt I could afford in their cellars was the La Rosine bottling).
 
I used to think La Rosine (red) was Cote Rotie "light", but that was before I tasted a few aged ones. I think when consumed very young, there are some similarities but with age, La Rosine diverges from Cote Rotie. I do agree about the randomization aspect as well. Several years ago, there was a tasting at Chez Ogier where they had a number of older La Rosines (red). I liked some, hated others, but found virtually no common thread in how they were aging. Some showed a lot of brett, some much less. Some had a very jalapeno sense, some didn't (and I couldn't match it to the normal "vintage mapping").

So when it was 6 Euros, I liked it enough to buy some. My current thinking is that for inexpensive Syrah I'd rather go for the base Souhaut, or a Crozes, or even the Jamet "Elegance".

La Rosine white, OTOH, is the one to go for when you can't find Pichon or Niero. Darn yummy.

And on the Vollenweider, I haven't opened any of those yet but from the notes, it sounds like you wouldn't bother - other than the 07 Portz.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
I think when consumed very young, there are some similarities but with age, La Rosine diverges from Cote Rotie. I do agree about the randomization aspect as well.
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I guess that's what happens without the Cote Rotie pedigree.

La Rosine white, OTOH, is the one to go for when you can't find Pichon or Niero. Darn yummy.
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Nice, don't see much of that here but I do remember liking it in Ampuis.

And on the Vollenweider, I haven't opened any of those yet but from the notes, it sounds like you wouldn't bother - other than the 07 Portz.
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Probably not. The note on the 06 is from a few months ago and I'm sure it is even more difficult now. The 04 is from just a few weeks ago but will probably only be better in the future. But I was curious.
 
I have seen the white La Rosine at K&L, I believe. And maybe Macarthurs? But yes, it is hard to find over here.

As far as Cote Rotie pedigree...I guess hundreds of years of Frenchmen may have figured out a few things - like where to draw the lines between the Grands Cru and "other". Or there is something different in the production of the wine. Or both. For non-pedigreed vineyards, I think I prefer L'Ame Soeur to La Rosine - but again, time will tell the whole story.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
For non-pedigreed vineyards, I think I prefer L'Ame Soeur to La Rosine - but again, time will tell the whole story.
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I think that I'll take Brzme over them both. Or is it now pedigreed?

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
I think that I'll take Brzme over them both. Or is it now pedigreed?

Mark Lipton
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Perhaps. It is also a touch more expensive.

Not that it isn't worth the money.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by mlawton:
For non-pedigreed vineyards, I think I prefer L'Ame Soeur to La Rosine - but again, time will tell the whole story.
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I think that I'll take Brzme over them both. Or is it now pedigreed?
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I kinda look at them differently. La Rosine and L'Ame Soeur are both very near Cote Rotie and seem to be billed as similar to Cote Rotie - where Brzme is from a lot further south and has more in common with some St. Joseph than Cote Rotie. I don't smell the same floral character in the Brzme. Not to say it's not floral, it just seems to be different flowers. Maybe it's the viognier that's making the difference, maybe it's my mind thinking about the geography and imposing that on what I taste - I'm not sure. But I do think the Brzme would be a better fit with a flight of nice St. Josephs like we had in Toledo...Otheguy, Souhaut's St. Epire, Gripa, etc. than it would be with things like L'Ame Soeur, La Rosine, Jamet "Elegance" and VdP, etc.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan: in what vintages did the decline happen? Any idea why?
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R, It has been a couple of years now (or more?) since I gave up on La Rosine.

I seem to recall that Michel began to source the fruit from different plots about that time.

Another unrelated but interesting tidbit that I recall is that on numerous occasions those of guys who really liked the La Rosine could not get our wives to like it. The difference of opinion between guys and girls was remarkable with quite a few different samplings.
 
I did get a few bottles from the same source. I'm not sure why you think mine were better unless you tasted them. Your tasting note is recognizable to me though I did get more bacon fat and olive than you did. Maybe I just used laudatory language that you don't think corresponds to your experience. But laudatory language is like that.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I'm not sure why you think mine were better unless you tasted them. Your tasting note is recognizable to me though I did get more bacon fat and olive than you did. Maybe I just used laudatory language that you don't think corresponds to your experience. But laudatory language is like that.
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Yes, I was thinking that you may just the like the profile better.

Although I would have preferred some more pork and olives!
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Taken out of context, this is pretty funny, coming from you.
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Indeed. And one wonders how I even know what bacon and pork smell like in wine as I do my best to avoid the foul odors in the rest of my life.

That said, I have never picked up on the beef's blood descriptor that others have noted in certain wines.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Not even in old Mourvdre?
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I've never come across beef's blood in real life (except when cowering in fear as I pass a butcher's shop), so I couldn't say.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Not even in old Mourvdre?
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I've never come across beef's blood in real life (except when cowering in fear as I pass a butcher's shop), so I couldn't say.
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I was recently taken to task for not being able to identify the "cola" descriptor for Pinot Noir as I have no real idea what Coke or Pepsi et al. taste like. These are the crosses we must bear, Rahsaan. Woe is our lot in life.

Mark Lipton
(On reflection, I realize that I also have no real idea what "liquid Viagra" or "sweet tannins" taste like -- I am limited, almost handicapped one could say)
 
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