RANT: Another (spongy) nail in the coffin

M

MLipton

Mark Lipton
Tonight, to celebrate our 20th anniversary, Jean decided to open one of the very few bottles in our cellar to predate our marriage: the '83 Ch. Margaux that I got her as a gift upon her Ph D defense (purchased at Garnet BTW -- any Disorderlies working there then?) in '88. The cork was reasonably intact, if saturated (this wine had seen various less-than-ideal storage conditions during its two transcontinental moves with us) and the wine a gorgeous dark color, but of course the damn wine was corked!. Not horribly corked, but enough that I was robbed of all the aromatics, leaving a wine beneath the mustiness that could have passed for a CalCab of middling years. Jean, who's a little less sensitive than this poor TCA sensitive, enjoyed the wine greatly, getting all sorts of tertiary elements that were absent for me. No chance of returning the bottle, of course, but the indignity of an irreplaceable bottle ruined by moldy tree bark is too much for words. Bring on the screwcaps, crown caps or ground glass stoppers! It can't happen soon enough for me.

Burned again,
Mark Lipton
 
Sorry for the ruined bottled, Mark.

Congratulations, and best wishes for many happy returns of the day though.

On the issue of TCA, have you read Jamie Goode's book yet? More research has come out since, but it provides a fine background on the state of things up to 2005. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts as a chemistry-saavy guy, as opposed my chemistry-savaged state. I just finished it, and could send it on - let me know.

Cheers,

Dave
 
Sorry about the wine. But look on the bright side. You are still celebrating your marriage and Jean still has her Ph.D. Wine is nice, but the other stuff is better.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Sorry about the wine. But look on the bright side. You are still celebrating your marriage and Jean still has her Ph.D. Wine is nice, but the other stuff is better.
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Actually, I'm not totally clear on the balance between wine and a Ph.D.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Sorry about the wine. But look on the bright side. You are still celebrating your marriage and Jean still has her Ph.D. Wine is nice, but the other stuff is better.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm not totally clear on the balance between wine and a Ph.D.
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Pshaw! We were drinking pretty fine wine in grad school, old thing, and the situation's only improved since then. What would we be drinking now if neither of us had left our well-paid BS positions in industry for the great unknown of grad school? (Most likely, hemlock tea given the current woeful state of both Big Pharma and biotech -- either that or Fendant in Basel)

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
What would we be drinking now if neither of us had left our well-paid BS positions in industry for the great unknown of grad school?
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Pointy cab.

There but for the grace of god...
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Sorry about the wine. But look on the bright side. You are still celebrating your marriage and Jean still has her Ph.D. Wine is nice, but the other stuff is better.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm not totally clear on the balance between wine and a Ph.D.
Click to expand...
Depends on the "wines" and in what quanity? It's the economy.
CONGRATS TO THE LIPTONS!!!!!!!
 
Because of my Ph.D., I am paid in actual currency to discuss novels and write about them. I am forever grateful. I could have made a living in some other way, perhaps. I could also have been a beer drinker or, because of an incipient disposition for CdPs, have developed a taste for weird, outsized versions of the wine. In either case, I would have experienced a poorer life--and I probably wouldn't even have been aware of the fact.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I would have experienced a poorer life--and I probably wouldn't even have been aware of the fact.
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Hornet's nest.
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Only if you're an Enlightenment philosopher fixated on clarity. Drunks and poststructuralists are always fascinated by counter-factuals. Or maybe only one or the other and I can't tell which of my weaknesses leads me there.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I could also have been a beer drinker [and] I would have experienced a poorer life
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Harsh words, professor, and ones that smack of the ignorance (in its most non-judgmental meaning - not that it ever sounds good - sorry about that) of the beer world that I find all too prevalent among wine folks. There is an amazing amount of quality brew out there, and watching the craft beer movement evolve (and drinking the results) over the past 17 years has been one of the great joys of my existence.

I dearly love wine too, but I honestly could not choose one over the other for the degree of pleasurable sensory experiences they provide to me, nor for their abilities to increase the pleasure of both dining and conversation with friends. If you've truly given beer a miss based on some perception that it is somehow a "lesser" or "poorer" beverage than wine, then I encourage you to give beer a fair shot. I'd be happy to share some recommendations.

Cheers,

Dave
 
originally posted by Dave Nelson:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I could also have been a beer drinker [and] I would have experienced a poorer life
Click to expand...

Harsh words, professor, and ones that smack of the ignorance (in its most non-judgmental meaning - not that it ever sounds good - sorry about that) of the beer world that I find all too prevalent among wine folks. There is an amazing amount of quality brew out there, and watching the craft beer movement evolve (and drinking the results) over the past 17 years has been one of the great joys of my existence.

I dearly love wine too, but I honestly could not choose one over the other for the degree of pleasurable sensory experiences they provide to me, nor for their abilities to increase the pleasure of both dining and conversation with friends. If you've truly given beer a miss based on some perception that it is somehow a "lesser" or "poorer" beverage than wine, then I encourage you to give beer a fair shot. I'd be happy to share some recommendations.

Cheers,

Dave
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Objective evaluations of pleasures being impossible, the words were neither harsh, nor objective, just an accurate report. I have tasted specialty beers, I recognize the possibility of experiencing them as I experience wine, but I wouldn't so experience them and so, if I were a beer drinker, I would have experienced a poorer life. The same might not be true for you.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I have tasted specialty beers, I recognize the possibility of experiencing them as I experience wine, but I wouldn't so experience them and so, if I were a beer drinker, I would have experienced a poorer life.
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Yes, but almost by definition, if you were a beer drinker then you would have greater interest in beer (why else would you be a beer drinker, under these cirucmstances) and therefore you would not have experienced a poorer life.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I have tasted specialty beers, I recognize the possibility of experiencing them as I experience wine, but I wouldn't so experience them and so, if I were a beer drinker, I would have experienced a poorer life.
Click to expand...

Yes, but almost by definition, if you were a beer drinker then you would have greater interest in beer (why else would you be a beer drinker, under these cirucmstances) and therefore you would not have experienced a poorer life.
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Perhaps true, perhaps not. The fact that I would like beer and take a greater interest in it than I do now does not show that I would take as much interest in it as I do in my current factual existence in wine. And I can't prove I wouldn't. But counter-factuals are about speculative possibilities, not measurable proofs.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I have tasted specialty beers, I recognize the possibility of experiencing them as I experience wine, but I wouldn't so experience them and so, if I were a beer drinker, I would have experienced a poorer life.
Click to expand...

Fair enough if you've spent enough time with good beer to make a determination for yourself that it's not worth the effort. That wasn't apparent from your original post, not that it should have been, this being Wine Disorder after all. Hell, I'm married to a woman who can't stand beer (though she very gamely tries them), so it's not a fatal character flaw or anything (jury's still out on whether marrying me is).

Having fought the good fight for quality beer and wine (and whisky - I'm triple-afflicted) for almost 20 years, I still have the occasional touchy response when people whose opinions I respect on wine (which includes you, not to be a kiss-ass for the "ignorant" comment or anything) seem to dismiss beer out of hand.

Honestly, it's been getting better. I think I spent about 40% of my time at this year's Toledo gathering discussing beer with folks.

Cheers,

Dave
 
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