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Brief data point 96 Baumard Savennieres
- Thread starter drssouth
- Start date
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Oh, I think you should be surprised!
This shouldn't be happening..
I agree that it "should not" be happening...unfortunately, from several observers, it seems to be a problem...bummer
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
'97 Baumard Clos de Papillon on Friday was totally shot.
Ignacio Villalgordo
Ignacio Villalgordo
Quarts de Chaume 97 was to die for a couple of months ago
Kay Bixler
Kay Bixler
'97 Closel Cuvee Speciale and '97 d'Epire Cuvee Speciale were both fine a week ago. Neither was thrilling but they seemed about right for 11-year old Savennieres. Maybe they had more zazz a few years ago. On the other hand a 1983 Coulee de Serrant with a nearly disintegrated cork was sublime and needed a week open in the fridge before it really came alive.
originally posted by Brad Kane:
Fwiw, I've only noticed the problem with Baumard's Savennieres. The QDC's are just fine.
Plenty of botrytis to keep them rich and secure? At least for the time being? Perhaps they too will be shorter-lived than previous examples.
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Plenty of botrytis to keep them rich and secure?
Try sugar.
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Plenty of botrytis to keep them rich and secure?
Try sugar.
Yes of course.
But did they do anything differently than in previous years?
Are people claiming this is related to the same premox that has been documented in Burgundy?
Are people claiming this is related to the same premox that has been documented in Burgundy?[/quote]
...no, not enough data to make that connection but this particular bottle (half-bottle) died a premature death....I happen to really like dry white wines from many regions of the world at 10+ years of age (or more) so this is not just a "less fruit" bias on my part...
just stirring the pot
...no, not enough data to make that connection but this particular bottle (half-bottle) died a premature death....I happen to really like dry white wines from many regions of the world at 10+ years of age (or more) so this is not just a "less fruit" bias on my part...
just stirring the pot
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Plenty of botrytis to keep them rich and secure?
Try sugar.
Yes of course.
But did they do anything differently than in previous years?
Are people claiming this is related to the same premox that has been documented in Burgundy?
I don't know so much "claiming" as "afraid it might be".
from her 1996 book, p133-134. The reason for recent less-than-stellar showings might possibly be revealed by this paragraph:
"...Baumard's wines are unfailingly professional. However, some legitimate concerns have been raised. First, that Baumard makes Savennires to drink young. (To the extent that it's true, he's certainly not alone.) Second, that he would like to change the law to have the right to add Sauvignon Blanc or Chardonnay to his Chenin as producers do with Anjou blanc. Indeed, some say he's already done this and presented the wine under the Savennires label, which Baumard denies."
"...Baumard's wines are unfailingly professional. However, some legitimate concerns have been raised. First, that Baumard makes Savennires to drink young. (To the extent that it's true, he's certainly not alone.) Second, that he would like to change the law to have the right to add Sauvignon Blanc or Chardonnay to his Chenin as producers do with Anjou blanc. Indeed, some say he's already done this and presented the wine under the Savennires label, which Baumard denies."
Ugh. Why? Earlier drinkability, again?originally posted by Don Rice:
he would like to change the law to have the right to add Sauvignon Blanc or Chardonnay to his Chenin
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
I've been through most of a case of 1996 Baumard Clos de Papillon Savennieres. They went super-dry-madierized within six or seven years of release. They tasted almost completely oxidized by year 10 or so, but in a funny way. The wine was sherry-like, but not flat or tired, and tasted quite appealing with food as you continued to drink it. By the end of the bottle, you wanted more. The last bottle we opened, about a year ago, seemed almost to be getting fresher. Quite a weirdo. We're still hanging on to two bottles.
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've been through most of a case of 1996 Baumard Clos de Papillon Savennieres. They went super-dry-madierized within six or seven years of release. They tasted almost completely oxidized by year 10 or so, but in a funny way. The wine was sherry-like, but not flat or tired, and tasted quite appealing with food as you continued to drink it. By the end of the bottle, you wanted more. The last bottle we opened, about a year ago, seemed almost to be getting fresher. Quite a weirdo. We're still hanging on to two bottles.
Come to think of it, I am most of the way through my case of 95, pulling a number after some non-optimal showings about 5 years ago.
Jeff Connell
Jeff Connell
No, that's so his Savennires can compete head-to-head with Fiefs-Vendens.originally posted by slaton:Ugh. Why? Earlier drinkability, again?originally posted by Don Rice:
he would like to change the law to have the right to add Sauvignon Blanc or Chardonnay to his Chenin
I understand that in Anjou Blanc (as well as Saumur Blanc) there is the right to add up to 20% Chardonnay and/or Sauvignon. But I would be surprised to learn that any of these wines that I have ever drunk were not 100% Chenin. (Well, apart from the obligatory 2% Verdelho, that is).
Doesn't Ogereau toss in a little Chard to some of their Anjou? I am away from my notes, but that's my vague recollection.originally posted by Jeff Connell:
No, that's so his Savennires can compete head-to-head with Fiefs-Vendens.originally posted by slaton:Ugh. Why? Earlier drinkability, again?originally posted by Don Rice:
he would like to change the law to have the right to add Sauvignon Blanc or Chardonnay to his Chenin
I understand that in Anjou Blanc (as well as Saumur Blanc) there is the right to add up to 20% Chardonnay and/or Sauvignon. But I would be surprised to learn that any of these wines that I have ever drunk were not 100% Chenin. (Well, apart from the obligatory 2% Verdelho, that is).