Chablis Depression

M

MLipton

Mark Lipton
Today my inbox is hit with an email flogging the '07 Fevre Chablis. When I look at the prices, I suppress the gag reflex: 1ers for $45-50, GCs for $60-70. Immediately, I am drawn back to the memory of discovering Chablis back in grad school when Dauvissat's GCs sold for under $20, which at the time was less than most CalChards sold for. This sad recollection, combined with my recent experiences with badly oxidized '02s, leads me to wonder whether I will ever buy Chablis again...

All of which leads me to the actual problem: I love good Chablis and arguably owe much of my current supply of white wines (Muscadet, Chenin and Riesling) to those early experiences with Chablis developing my appreciation for minerally, crisp white wines during the height of OTT Chardonnays. Yet I honestly cannot see any scenario in which I will again buy and cellar one of the great white wines of the world, a realization that leaves me feeling sad.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Chablis Depression ...I love good Chablis and arguably owe much of my current supply of white wines (Muscadet, Chenin and Riesling) to those early experiences with Chablis developing my appreciation for minerally, crisp white wines during the height of OTT Chardonnays. Yet I honestly cannot see any scenario in which I will again buy and cellar one of the great white wines of the world, a realization that leaves me feeling sad.
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I share your depression, although I have to admit I survived a similar issue with Barolo/Barbaresco a few years back. When dealing with such depression, it's important to regularly exercise (your palate with new interesting wines), not read or taste too much of your old obsession, find a new hobby (has anyone really explored Georgian varieties?) You always have your friends here. And who knows, in a few years the problem may be solved:

--wine hipsters could return to oak and fruit worship, reducing demand for Chablis. Or foresake bone dry minerally wines in favor of the fruity-floral spectrum.

--high prices for Chablis could encourage some of the lesser known Yonne appellations with good and similar soil to boost quality and production. (Care for some Tonnerre with that tuna?)

--that Kimmeridgian soil pops up in various places in Northern France and England, no? Another decade of global warming, some cuttings from 1re cru vineyards in Chablis and voila! The new is old again.

Hope this helps.
 
Mark, if I understand your post, you're citing two issues: 1. premox, and 2. price.

Excuse my ignorance, but is the premox problem still a concern with later vintages, say 2005 onward? I was under the impression that recent vintages have a much lower chance of premox. If that is true, then the second issue, price, seems to be the larger issue. I've found some pretty good value Chablis, not a lot but some, like Boudin's Cantemerle and Tribut's Lechet.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by MLipton: When I look at the prices, I suppress the gag reflex: 1ers for $45-50, GCs for $60-70.
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Aren't those prices cheap?
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Maybe to you overpaid pre-academics, but not to us poor louts in the trenches. They were being touted as being bargains, which only exacerbated the depression.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Maybe to you overpaid pre-academics, but not to us poor louts in the trenches. They were being touted as being bargains, which only exacerbated the depression.

Mark Lipton
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I don't follow Chablis prices very closely so maybe I've been looking in the wrong places. But I usually see Fevre 1ers for $50-60 and the GCs for $70 and up. Roughly speaking. That said, I don't buy any of them (except for the odd bottle of Dauvissat when in Paris) because this seems to be one wine category where there are significant price differentials between retail in France and retail in the U.S. (which is not necessarily the case for the rest of Burgundy).
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
On the whole, I find French wine worlds cheaper in the States (comparing cost at retail in both places).
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I wanna know where you shop (in the US), Sharon. For me, it's always a pleasant shock to see the pricing of wines in France, especially when I'm lucky enough to be visiting a vigneron in his cave. I have the vivid memory of visiting Dom. de Pga in '01 and buying their Cuve Rserve for ~$12 at a time when it sold stateside for roughly three times that price.

Mark Lipton
 
Mark,
There are more good Chablis producers than just Raveneau and V. Dauvissat. (Fevre never has really rung my bell.)
And some of the village stuff is between $17 and $25 - not cheap, but certainly many times better than domestic chardonnay at that price.
Along with Asher's suggestions I'd add Louis Michel, Droin, Billaud Simon, Drouhin, Duplessis, Durup, Long-Depaquit, Malandes, Louis Moreau, Dampt, Collet, Defaix, Laroche, Pinson, Servin, Tremblay, Vocret and occasionally, Jean Dauvissat.
You may not get their grand crus at good prices, but many of the premier crus and village wines are still affordable.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Asher:

Excuse my ignorance, but is the premox problem still a concern with later vintages, say 2005 onward? I was under the impression that recent vintages have a much lower chance of premox. If that is true, then the second issue, price, seems to be the larger issue. I've found some pretty good value Chablis, not a lot but some, like Boudin's Cantemerle and Tribut's Lechet.
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Asher, I think it's too early to judge whether the PremOx problem is sorting itself out. Keep in mind that much of the perceived problem from the mid-'90s only became clear in last 3-5 years, so who can tell yet with the '05s? And I don't know about you, but at these prices I am not going to be among the shock troops to investigate.

Regarding your other point about producers, I agree. Boudin I've liked, but has never rocked my world; Tribut's wines I quite like. There are another half dozen producers whose wines I generally like, but availability of those becomes another issue.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
On the whole, I find French wine worlds cheaper in the States (comparing cost at retail in both places).
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I think you're exaggerating just a bit here.

To take this Chablis example, last summer the Dauvissat 1ers were 25-35euros in Paris retail shops which is well below what they sell for retail in the States.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Mark,
There are more good Chablis producers than just Raveneau and V. Dauvissat. (Fevre never has really rung my bell.)
And some of the village stuff is between $17 and $25 - not cheap, but certainly many times better than domestic chardonnay at that price.
Along with Asher's suggestions I'd add Louis Michel, Droin, Billaud Simon, Drouhin, Duplessis, Durup, Long-Depaquit, Malandes, Louis Moreau, Dampt, Collet, Defaix, Laroche, Pinson, Servin, Tremblay, Vocret and occasionally, Jean Dauvissat.
You may not get their grand crus at good prices, but many of the premier crus and village wines are still affordable.
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Jim, I agree. Fvre's wines have supposedly improved, but I'm not motivated to investigate at these prices. Your experience with other producers is broader than mine, but there are others whose wines I like From your list, I'd single out Drouhin, Michel, Droin and Long-Depaquit and plead ignorance about most of the others (not Jean Dauvissat, whose wines have generally left me uninspired). Add to that list Tribut, Picq, Boudin and Brocard and the two that Kermit brings in (other than Raveneau) and that pretty much defines my positive experience.

Claude - I have limited experience with La Chablisienne, but have found all but their top level rather uninspired. Your experience is no doubt much greater than my own.

Mark Lipton

Added in edit: And I'm still not gonna cellar them for more than 2-3 years until further notice.
 
originally posted by MLipton:

Claude - I have limited experience with La Chablisienne, but have found all but their top level rather uninspired. Your experience is no doubt much greater than my own.

Mark Lipton
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My experience is only with some of their better wines, but the overall reputation is as one of the best co-ops around, possibly second only to Produttori del Barbaresco. It does stand to reason that the lower down you go, the more there is dilution of relative quality.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
...Along with Asher's suggestions I'd add Louis Michel, Droin, Billaud Simon, Drouhin, Duplessis, Durup, Long-Depaquit, Malandes, Louis Moreau, Dampt, Collet, Defaix, Laroche, Pinson, Servin, Tremblay, Vocoret and occasionally, Jean Dauvissat.
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Add to that list...Brocard
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Yes, I was surprised not to seem him mentioned earlier. Moderate prices for the times (although creeping upwards) and good minerality and terroir expression in my experience. Drouhin's Chablis is nearly always OK but never fully captures the Chablissiness somehow IMHO. Long-Depaquit is usually pricey here in my experience. Vocoret is hard to find, although I have liked what I did find. Moreau seems to have very spotty distribution out west.
 
All of which leads me to the actual problem: I love good Chablis and arguably owe much of my current supply of white wines (Muscadet, Chenin and Riesling) to those early experiences with Chablis developing my appreciation for minerally, crisp white wines during the height of OTT Chardonnays. Yet I honestly cannot see any scenario in which I will again buy and cellar one of the great white wines of the world, a realization that leaves me feeling sad.
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Hey, i think you've just answered your own question. No time like the present to purchase mass quantities of Muscadet, Riesling, and Chenin.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Also, they're Fvre.
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Exactly.

And then there's the relative value of many crisp whites from, well, you know .

I do buy some petit chablis and villages chablis off wine lists. And still have a few bottles of Raveneau in the cave. Otherwise, Chablis is off my radar.
 
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