red, white and why is everyone so blue about it?

[scottreiner]

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why is it inherently bad to create rose by mixing red and white wines? every day people add viognier to syrah... i see no reason why, in the hands of the right person, wonderful wine could be made in this way.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

I believe the viognier and syrah are co-fermented, not vinified separately and then mixed.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I believe the viognier and syrah are co-fermented, not vinified separately and then mixed.

Certainly in the Northen Rhone it is, as the intent is to use the Viognier to increase extraction and fix the color of the Syrah. However, I believe that there are some Aussie (and perhaps Merkin) wineries that mix the two after fermentation.

Mark Lipton

 

[Steve Edmunds]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I believe the viognier and syrah are co-fermented, not vinified separately and then mixed.

Certainly in the Northen Rhone it is, as the intent is to use the Viognier to increase extraction and fix the color of the Syrah. However, I believe that there are some Aussie (and perhaps Merkin) wineries that mix the two after fermentation.

Mark Lipton

Mark; according to Guigal (this was awhile back) the Viognier, picked when the Syrah is ripe, is much higher in sugar, boosting the alcohol without chaptalization. The co-pigmentation story is interesting, but seems odd given the dark color of Syrah.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:

Mark; according to Guigal (this was awhile back) the Viognier, picked when the Syrah is ripe, is much higher in sugar, boosting the alcohol without chaptalization. The co-pigmentation story is interesting, but seems odd given the dark color of Syrah.

Interesting, too, Steve. Perhaps the practice made more sense in earlier, cooler times when the ripeness of the Syrah was in doubt? Ampuis is, after all, pretty much at the Northern extreme of its growing range. Perhaps Eric T. can add some expertise here if he reads this.

Mark Lipton

 

[Warren Edwardes]

Totally agree. Lot of fuss about nothing. And the base blended wine for ros Champagne is made from mixing red and white fermented wines.

 

[Thor]

Noted without comment, because I understand about every tenth word: Roger Boulton on copigmentation.

 

[Joel Stewart]

i thought the viognier was added for the aromatics...no?

it's hard for me to believe that northern rhone winemakers 3 - 4 generations back were co-fermenting grapes specifically to make sure the visual was right. as steve says, it's not like syrah has an inferiority complex or anything by itself.

 

[Thor]

It's not my understanding that, at least in Cte-Rtie, viognier was "added" as much as "existing within the vineyard," and thus was the tradition born. Now? I don't know. Claude can probably supply details on this. But in general, I don't think that a lack of deliberate intent to darken their syrah necessarily means that copigmentation doesn't have an effect.

 

[Joel Stewart]

agreed....but now that we're here, the intent is really what i'd like to know. i can't sleep at night.

 

[Steve Edmunds]

originally posted by Thor:
Noted without comment, because I understand about every tenth word: Roger Boulton on copigmentation.

Perhaps if he'd written it in a human language...

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by scottreiner:
red, white and why is everyone so blue about it?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hrtZDhM99c7FlJb7nUm5YVUarSWw why is it inherently bad to create rose by mixing red and white wines? every day people add viognier to syrah... i see no reason why, in the hands of the right person, wonderful wine could be made in this way.

The argument is made herein today's NYT. Basically, adding viognier to syrah is fine, because what you get is red wine. But adding red wine to white gives you harder, more tannic rose, hence bad.

The shocker to me was the claim that "in France, they outsell white wine." really??

 

[Cliff]

The shocker to me was the claim that "in France, they outsell white wine." really??

Certainly in Provence, where the guy is from. Hard to imagine in, say, Alsace.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

Apparently, it's over.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by SFJoe:
The shocker to me was the claim that "in France, they outsell white wine." really??

I agree that doesn't sound right.

I have not been able to find color-specific production numbers for France yet, but, given the current foofaraw, it was easy to find rose production numbers (though Reuters does not give their sources): click