Temecula, or thereabouts?

Warren, afaik there is no real "ancient Basque" as anything written is from recent centuries. As I explained in my first link in my previous post, I gave away my Basque material so I can't check for specifics, but some I remember:

arin = liquid

ozpin = vinegar

arrain = fish

I do remember a longer list in my papers.
 
I have committed an excursion to Temecula wineries:

Callaway
2008 Bella Blanc Sparkling Wine - It is described this way: "This sparkling chardonnay has a fresh bouquet of peach and exotic melons with light caramel and toast. Soft apple, Anjou pear, and a finish of crisp orange zest;" yes to the first sentence, no to the second; ordinary
2008 Special Selection Rose of Sangiovese - again, a very ordinary, slightly sweet rose
2004 Winemaker's Reserve Dolcetto - here's something dry and crisp! it is a little too extracted but it hints that, maybe, someone who worked on it knows what a chianti is; worth a second try
2005 Winemaker's Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon - lots of wood, not overtly perfumey but conceals the wine
2008 Special Selection Nebbiolo Bello - a slightly sweet rose wine; eh
2008 Special Selection Muscat Canelli - peachy-lichee, very aromatic; great for non-wine drinkers (like my partner)

Mount Palomar
2007 Dry Riesling - has seen some oak so it's very odd; finishes thin
2007 Castelletto Cortese - viscous, with a bitter finish; amazingly, my partner liked this one
2005 Cinsaut - crisp, dry, light, even better with a little chill on it, worth trying again
2005 Castelletto Sangiovese - some good fruit here but smothered in the barrel; it's not that it tastes of oak (it should, after 24 months in new oak, but it really doesn't overtly) but it is tired and burdened with a lot of non-fruit flavors; a shame to do this to otherwise nice fruit
2004 Syrah - lots of wood tannins, all furry on top of the extract; not much varietal character
2006 Riesling - 3.5% RS; limp, flat

Baily
2008 Dry Riesling - thin, bland
2008 Montage - sauvignon blanc 66%, semillon 34%; taste pretty much like a s.b. varietal; could be OK with fish/shellfish
2006 Sangiovese - a young, fruity wine with no particular character
2005 Cabernet Franc - varietally correct but no interesting soil tones
2003 Port - cab franc, 18% alcohol, 11% RS; very walnutty aroma, blueberries, not overpoweringly goopy

So, there is it. Pretty much like folks said it would be. All these places had bars big enough for busloads. The clubs are designed to make it easy to sign up and painless to keep participating (e.g., buy 2 bottles to get a membership, the club sends 2 bottles every 2 months). It's a triumph of capitalism, if not oenology.

The pourer at Mount Palomar made two interesting comments. The first: When I described what I was looking for in a red wine -- dry, minerality, good acidity, not too much wood -- she flat out said that they had no wine that fit that description. Points for honesty. The second: When we asked her about the apparent fascination with grapes that hardly anyone else in the US grows, she said that Temecula, until very recently (roughly 5 years) had been in the hands of hobbyists... older men who, in their retirement, wanted to make some wine that reminded them of their homes, whether the valley was good for those grapes or not... but that professional winemakers were starting to move in and are starting to change how things are done. Good story, anyway.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

The second: When we asked her about the apparent fascination with grapes that hardly anyone else in the US grows, she said that Temecula, until very recently (roughly 5 years) had been in the hands of hobbyists... older men who, in their retirement, wanted to make some wine that reminded them of their homes, whether the valley was good for those grapes or not... but that professional winemakers were starting to move in and are starting to change how things are done. Good story, anyway.
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It seems to me I've heard that song before it's from an old familiar score.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Had a bottle of Gurrutxaga 08 Txakolina Rosado with dinner tonight. Absolutely addictive. Salty/minerally and crisp. Went well with everything on the table. At $23, I probably can't back up the truck but I am certainly getting some more.
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Had it again tonight. Absolutely great. And, at 10.5% abv, I can quaff two or three of these and still not consume as much alcohol as one bottle of that over-blown fruit-bomb juice that FL Jim drinks nowadays.
 
originally posted by Michael Malinoski:
If you must go, I do remember some offbeat rustic wines at Hart
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Last night I tasted a lovely 2014 Hart Temecula Valley Arneis 13.6%. Served blind, I could have sworn it was a fine minerally Chablis without wood. I may have been ridiculously off base but, at $26, this is worth a try for those out there in the southern CA boondocks.
 
As to making Txakoli here in CA: I had an idea once that I could make an interesting wine from second-crop Gamay, picked at low Brix, pressed off with pale color, and bottled with a bit of residual fizz, not too long after the fermentation, and call it Notxakoli.
 
originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
As to making Txakoli here in CA: I had an idea once that I could make an interesting wine from second-crop Gamay, picked at low Brix, pressed off with pale color, and bottled with a bit of residual fizz, not too long after the fermentation, and call it Notxakoli.
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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
 
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
As to making Txakoli here in CA: I had an idea once that I could make an interesting wine from second-crop Gamay, picked at low Brix, pressed off with pale color, and bottled with a bit of residual fizz, not too long after the fermentation, and call it Notxakoli.
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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
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The Paris Review had an article this Fall about how "The Road Not Taken" is not only the most misunderstood poem of American literature but also, "It may be the best example in all of American culture of a wolf in sheep’s clothing." That is, the poem is so commonly used to assert American individualism and can-do attitude that it goes beyond the confines of literature to serve as part of culture more broadly. But, the poem isn't in its whole about individualism at all. It's about self-doubt, and the lying to ourselves that commonly goes with it.

Here's an excerpt from the article:

"The poem’s speaker tells us he “shall be telling,” at some point in the future, of how he took the road less traveled by, yet he has already admitted that the two paths “equally lay / In leaves” and “the passing there / Had worn them really about the same.” So the road he will later call less traveled is actually the road equally traveled. The two roads are interchangeable.

"According to this reading, then, the speaker will be claiming “ages and ages hence” that his decision made “all the difference” only because this is the kind of claim we make when we want to comfort or blame ourselves by assuming that our current position is the product of our own choices (as opposed to what was chosen for us or allotted to us by chance). The poem isn’t a salute to can-do individualism; it’s a commentary on the self-deception we practice when constructing the story of our own lives."

I for one am sorry not to have tasted Steve Edmond's imagined Notxacoli. Mmm... Gamay...
 
Also, if anyone is still having to visit family around Temecula and wants to know if there are any wineries worth visiting... if you can get just a bit south to Escondido, Vesper and J. Brix share a tasting room and the two are worth a visit. You have to schedule with J. Brix in advance, but I think Vesper keeps tasting room hours.
 
originally posted by hawk_wakawaka:
"The poem’s speaker tells us he “shall be telling,” at some point in the future, of how he took the road less traveled by, yet he has already admitted that the two paths “equally lay / In leaves” and “the passing there / Had worn them really about the same.” So the road he will later call less traveled is actually the road equally traveled. The two roads are interchangeable.
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This is selective reading and not entirely fair. The full stanza is:

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

So, equally traveled overall but not that day.

"According to this reading, then, the speaker will be claiming “ages and ages hence” that his decision made “all the difference” only because this is the kind of claim we make when we want to comfort or blame ourselves by assuming that our current position is the product of our own choices (as opposed to what was chosen for us or allotted to us by chance). The poem isn’t a salute to can-do individualism; it’s a commentary on the self-deception we practice when constructing the story of our own lives."
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This, however, is perfectly fair and fine.
 
originally posted by hawk_wakawaka:
Also, if anyone is still having to visit family around Temecula and wants to know if there are any wineries worth visiting... if you can get just a bit south to Escondido, Vesper and J. Brix share a tasting room and the two are worth a visit. You have to schedule with J. Brix in advance, but I think Vesper keeps tasting room hours.
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That's me and thank you. I'll keep them in mind for the next time.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by hawk_wakawaka:
"The poem’s speaker tells us he “shall be telling,” at some point in the future, of how he took the road less traveled by, yet he has already admitted that the two paths “equally lay / In leaves” and “the passing there / Had worn them really about the same.” So the road he will later call less traveled is actually the road equally traveled. The two roads are interchangeable.
Click to expand...
This is selective reading and not entirely fair. The full stanza is:

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

So, equally traveled overall but not that day.

"According to this reading, then, the speaker will be claiming “ages and ages hence” that his decision made “all the difference” only because this is the kind of claim we make when we want to comfort or blame ourselves by assuming that our current position is the product of our own choices (as opposed to what was chosen for us or allotted to us by chance). The poem isn’t a salute to can-do individualism; it’s a commentary on the self-deception we practice when constructing the story of our own lives."
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This, however, is perfectly fair and fine.
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Actually, even this is pretty willful. The speaker is speaking sometime recently after he has made the choice and he says about himself in the future that he will claim the decision will have made all the difference. That fictional future speaker is neither right nor self-deceived because he doesn't exist. The present speaker imagines him to offer a reading the poem neither affirms nor denies. Whether the choice is aleatory or significant, simply a choice of a road or an allegory of fateful choice is the point of the question. The poem doesn't pose one of those readings as right. I don't keep up with Frost criticism, but I really doubt the insufficiency of the highschool reading has gone unnoticed.
 
originally posted by hawk_wakawaka:
Also, if anyone is still having to visit family around Temecula and wants to know if there are any wineries worth visiting... if you can get just a bit south to Escondido, Vesper and J. Brix share a tasting room and the two are worth a visit. You have to schedule with J. Brix in advance, but I think Vesper keeps tasting room hours.
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I have been and I agree its a great tasting and a fantastic surprise for San Diego.

Did you taste Abe's secret barrel?
 
I read the poem as an affirmation of individual choice and a willingness to accept "difference."

And I make little attempt to understand the speaker's meaning but rather to relate his art to my life. That is, the effect on me is more important to me than what he had in mind when he wrote it.
Certainly, the academic may be more interested in the speaker. But no academic am I.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
I read the poem as an affirmation of individual choice and a willingness to accept "difference."

And I make little attempt to understand the speaker's meaning but rather to relate his art to my life. That is, the effect on me is more important to me than what he had in mind when he wrote it.
Certainly, the academic may be more interested in the speaker. But no academic am I.
Best, Jim
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So you should read Invictus. You'll like it better.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Frost clown?
Saints preserve us!
Best, Jim
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But if you don't care what Frost thought he was saying, why would you care if someone called him a clown. You are reading the poem that is important to you (and you are right that if a poem is important to you in some way, then it is unlikely an opposed reading will make you feel differently, since the poem will become less valuable to you, but maybe not the poem he wrote.
 
I am very pleased that Frost wrote the poem. He is valuable to me.
And more valuable still because I can relate to his work.
I never met the man.
Best, Jim
 
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