2007 Luneau-Papin Clos des Alles

R

Rahsaan

Rahsaan
2007 Luneau-Papin Muscadet Clos des Alles

I hear this vintage was slightly chaptalized and as a result I am prone to look for the disjuncture between round soft body and pale flavors and tastes. But, even if it is not the most complex or glistening iteration of this cuvee, the round pale slightly herbal and citric drink is still fun to drink and goes refreshingly well with our dinner of fresh pasta, zucchini, gorgonzola dolce, and herbs, plus salad. No complaints even if no desire to rush out and repurchase.
 
I contacted the estate and the 2007 Clos des Alls was not chaptalized.

Rahsaan tells me in private correspondence that he learned this fact by reading SF Joe's report on a visit to the cellar.

Rahsaan might have cited where he "heard" this report but apparently doesn't feel any need to cite references beyond heresay. I can only hope his students are discouraged by him to cite things they have heard when they write papers.

The Clos des Alls was picked eight days into the 2007 harvest and the weather was beautiful. There was no need for "corrections" and the wine fermented naturally for six weeks.
 
So, did you find any evidence of chaptalization in the unchaptalized wine?

Your tasting notes implies you found a disjuncture "between round soft body and pale flavors and tastes" that somehow came for the non-existent chaptalization.

2007 was a splendid vintage in the Muscadet and I'm sorry you have so much trouble with the wines. Perhaps you approached the wines with a disposition to find flaws because you had heard they were chaptalized. Even experienced tasted like yourself can get suckered by generalizations.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner: Perhaps you approached the wines with a disposition to find flaws because you had heard they were chaptalized. Even experienced tasted like yourself can get suckered by generalizations.
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I don't know that I was 'suckered by generalizations'. Rather, I was 'suckered by specific misinformation'.

But regardless of that pedantic point, it was indeed an interesting experiment (in retrospect) that demonstrates the power of suggestion. I'll have to buy more to taste again. And while I doubt that my overall picture of the wine will change, it could still be a different experience.
 
Why do you doubt your evaluation will change?

Could you describe more the "pale flavors and tastes" that the non-chaptalization had caused?

Did you find the "roundness" of the wine exaggerated because of the non-added sugar you had assumed was there?

Do you remember every line in SF Joe's tasting reports!
 
Rahsaan specified that his tasting note was shaped by the [mis]information he had about the wine (a fairly overly scholarly form of self-awareness for a wine board). He further specifies, upon request, the source of that [mis]information, even though such request is absurdly pedantic on a wine board. I fail to see the basis for the aggressive response to the note and I'd be happy to be a student in his class were it not for the subject he teaches, which I'd probably flunk.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Rahsaan specified that his tasting note was shaped by the [mis]information he had about the wine (a fairly overly scholarly form of self-awareness for a wine board). He further specifies, upon request, the source of that [mis]information, even though such request is absurdly pedantic on a wine board. I fail to see the basis for the aggressive response to the note and I'd be happy to be a student in his class were it not for the subject he teaches, which I'd probably flunk.
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Which reminds me I'm behind on my Kant reading.

I'd be happy to be in Mr. Dressner's, Prof. Loesberg's, or Prof. Rahsaan's class. It's the thought of being in Prof. vlm's class that scares me.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner: Why do you doubt your evaluation will change?
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I am open to the idea that my evaluation would change and (as mentioned above) find it an interesting experiment in the power of suggestion. However, I don't think my evaluation will be dramatically different because I actually didn't respond to the chaptalization misinformation in a very negative way. I have a lot of respect for Luneau-Papin and have no doubt that I have enjoyed wines in the past that have been slightly chaptalized by conscientious winemakers.

Do you remember every line in SF Joe's tasting reports!
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Only the lines with mistaken info!
 
originally posted by Bwood:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Rahsaan specified that his tasting note was shaped by the [mis]information he had about the wine (a fairly overly scholarly form of self-awareness for a wine board). He further specifies, upon request, the source of that [mis]information, even though such request is absurdly pedantic on a wine board. I fail to see the basis for the aggressive response to the note and I'd be happy to be a student in his class were it not for the subject he teaches, which I'd probably flunk.
Click to expand...

Which reminds me I'm behind on my Kant reading.

I'd be happy to be in Mr. Dressner's, Prof. Loesberg's, or Prof. Rahsaan's class. It's the thought of being in Prof. vlm's class that scares me.
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Actually, I'm reading Vasari these days. Keep up with the reading!
 
originally posted by Bwood:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Rahsaan specified that his tasting note was shaped by the [mis]information he had about the wine (a fairly overly scholarly form of self-awareness for a wine board). He further specifies, upon request, the source of that [mis]information, even though such request is absurdly pedantic on a wine board. I fail to see the basis for the aggressive response to the note and I'd be happy to be a student in his class were it not for the subject he teaches, which I'd probably flunk.
Click to expand...

Which reminds me I'm behind on my Kant reading.

I'd be happy to be in Mr. Dressner's, Prof. Loesberg's, or Prof. Rahsaan's class. It's the thought of being in Prof. vlm's class that scares me.
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I'd be happy to be in Mr. Dressner's class, provided tuition includes visits to his various estates. Perhaps I should look under "junkets and other tchotchkes" in his webpages. I have no idea what Rahsaan teaches, since he has never mentioned it on SFJoe's blog or on the pale, translucent winedisorder pages. And I'd also be happy to study reconstructive facial surgery with Michael Jackson.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Actually, I'm reading Vasari these days.
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I'm reading Vasari too (who seems to have been factually incorrect often enough). Still, he makes for a pretty good read, esp. when he gives Raphael a rest...(talk about chaptalizing).
 
originally posted by Bwood:

Which reminds me I'm behind on my Kant reading.
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Funny, reading this thread I am reminded of how long it's been since I last read any HP Lovecraft.

I'd be happy to be in Mr. Dressner's, Prof. Loesberg's, or Prof. Rahsaan's class. It's the thought of being in Prof. vlm's class that scares me.
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What? You don't think that you have more to learn about marksmanship? Personally, I'm looking forward to the Fall '09 offering of The Monkey's Guide to Firearm Etiquette at Jeebi, which I'm told has an associated lab course.

Mark Lipton
 
I tried the 07 Allees and thought it was a little tart, so mixed in some U and I beet suger, and damn if it isn't a great little refresher. YUM!
 
I am on the road and away from my contemporaneous notes. I do have the recollection that Luneau said they'd chaptalized this wine, but it was in a large group and a multilingual setting, and my French sucks. It's quite possible that I was mistaken, or that there is a transcription error somewhere. My apologies for any confusion I've caused. The famous fact checking squad at Wine therapy seem to have failed to confirm the key points with Pierre Luneau. Standards for evidence are in a sad decline in our post-postmodern era.

Sorry not to be responsive to various emails and this thread, and I have to go to my next conference call now.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
I'd be happy to be in Mr. Dressner's, Prof. Loesberg's, or Prof. Rahsaan's class. It's the thought of being in Prof. vlm's class that scares me.
Click to expand...

What? You don't think that you have more to learn about marksmanship? Personally, I'm looking forward to the Fall '09 offering of The Monkey's Guide to Firearm Etiquette at Jeebi, which I'm told has an associated lab course.

Mark Lipton
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Steve McNair failed.

But any Nashville resident already knows that.
 
originally posted by VLM:
I realize
the above is simply awful.

I just couldn't help myself.

I'll probably delete later.
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What??? You want to be known as the VLM from now on or sumfin'?

Mark Lipton
 
once again, y'all have made this board the most amusing and intellectual wine board on the internet to which to escape when trying to avoid working! Thanks again!
 
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