TN: 2007 Bazaltbor

Two to three months ago, thanks to the conveyance of young vintner (or still aspiring? Ill have to ask him) Ambrus Bak, I received a parcel containing sample bottles of 2007 from what I am told is the foremost winery in the Badacsony region in Hungary. After the bottles got over a month of rest to alleviate a possible travel shock, I spontaneously opened three bottles side by side at a dinner party sometime in May.
I was surprised, speedily tasting through the wines before serving them one night to my parents and another guest, Matthias, a friend of the family, by how much more easygoing and harmonious (unable to think of an adequate translation of what Im thinking of the German word stimmig translates into inherently consistent) these wines are compared to earlier wines from this region (the same and other wineries), but then, Ambrus informs me that his friend Bence still fermented these 2007s at 20 versus 15 Celsius (plus earlier racking) to avoid malolactic fermentation in the following vintage. Theyre certainly more low-acid and perhaps flabbier than comparable wines Ive tasted in the past. While I dont mind higher-acid whites, it is certainly true that there should be nothing irritating about these 2007s to palates honed on Swiss Chasselas.
My mother put it simply and effectively noting Now these wines arent a Hungarian curiosity anymore as if alluding to a change towards a more internationalized style (that may however be limited to wines of the 2007 vintage). She went on to point out that in gastronomy today, wines poured by the glass tend to come from all over the planet, whereas people were once used to local wines poured by the glass or served in jugs her generation would order more expensive foreign bottles from the wine list almost exclusively when there was a reason to celebrate (on a side note: her dad still used to buy his wine in barrel and bottle himself). Obviously, this has changed (to the dismay of local vintners, who feel Switzerlands flooded with inexpensive wine from elsewhere no one appears to mind the more costly fine wine category, to try and be competitive in that field is a comparatively recent phenomenon).
Everyone at the table agreed a curiosity factor can be a definite plus when it comes to niche products like the indigenous Kknyel variety. It is for this reason that the wine Matthias and my parents found most problematic was the Rizling Vlogats (the Welschriesling Selection, the labelling is misleading, same as it once used to be in Switzerland, where people still refer to Mller-Thurgau as Riesling, the misnomer being a relic back from a time when it was still assumed to be Riesling-Sylvaner) it isnt of the fruity and obvious kind, and when I tried to discuss the soil notes and minerality, it turned out no one felt that specific ice spar/calcium dust fits the variety (Matthias said it smells like cement) the way they know and like Riesling (primarily from Alsace, Germany and the Wachau).
I then poured the wines to just about everyone (with a palate, that is) I met over the next few days, adding some of those peoples impressions to my notes.
I still havent managed to visit the region, so all I know about the vintage is what Ambrus wrote to me about it: 2007 was (altogether) a very hot and very wet vintage - the second half of July broke all records in heat (this short period was extremely dry as well) and rainfall throughout the year was way above average. The result (what we could see at the time of the harvest) was: harvest 10-15 days earlier than 'average' (average: in the past up to and incl. 1999), sugar levels average or a bit lower, acidity levels average or a bit lower. He added later: All in all I would say fermentation in the large oak barrels, cooled to 20 C, was usually too fast. Malo happened almost invariably and late racking (and sulphuring) stripped the wines of much of their character, but also that Vintage 2007 was the worst since 2001 at least.
Theres going to be a follow-up on these as I received a bottle each, but to be honest, Im not convinced the wines will improve (let alone much) with bottle age. To end this with, let me say Im grateful for the opportunity to taste these wines. The terroir expression in wines from Badacsony is certainly unique, and I have no doubt there is great potential there.

Bazaltbor Laposa Pincszet Nagy-Somli Olasz Rizling 2007
Welschriesling or so-called Italian Riesling from the Soml hill, fermented (dry) and aged in large barrels (≥1000 liters). Top wine of the second line of the winery. Palish sand-hued green. The most open and thus the favourite of the evening with Matthias and my parents (not mine), a wine they felt should be drunk young (I agree). Fairly glyceric, not too concentrated, lightly sweet due to the combination of ripeness and (otherwise well-integrated) 13.5% alcohol. Some nice herbs, basil and lemongrass maybe. Mild yet fresh acidity, with the tiniest of bitter notes. Medium-soft (typically basalt) minerality. Touch of viscosity on the finish. I like the early harmony here. Matthias described this as watery on entry, growing on the mid-palate, then looser again on the back end. Even so, it is the wine that they felt showed most body and complexity at present. When I served this to my wine buddies Marc, Oliver and Wolfgang the next day, they all thought this non-descript and rather bland. Retasting it leisurely by myself about 36 hours after I had opened the bottle, I thought it nicely round in terms of mouthfeel, perhaps also a bit like a Gantenbein Pinot Blanc (there have been soppier vintages of that, too), but it had lost freshness and virtually all of the (little) raciness it had displayed earlier; upfront fruit and what complexity had been there at all seemed gone. Dani thought this petrolly by now (agree) and too light, not flavourful and intense enough, as well as short on the finish. Remo noted that he could not stomach a full glass of any of these wines, as he found them both light and bland but heavy to digest. Rating: 85-/84(-?)

Bazaltbor Laposa Pincszet Badacsonyi Rizling2 2007
A cuve of Olasz Rizling/Welschriesling from the Badacsony hill and Rajnai Rizling/Rhine Riesling from the Csobnc hill, fermented (dry) and aged in large barrels (≥1000 liters) and a several years old barrique. Main wine in the first line of the winery. Full amount of the Riesling 'Selection' was blended into this wine. Slightly greener and more luminescent colour perhaps? The most density, intensity, tightness or reserve fruit at the core, viscosity, and body of the three wines. Buffers its 14% alcohol with ease. Most complex fruit at this early stage, seemingly because it is a blend. Limier but no more acidic in balance, even if Matthias thought it fractionally spiky on the finish. Quite glyceric, lightly tannic. Smokier minerality, Matthias said, I agree. My mother felt that this may have the most upwards potential, but that it is nonetheless not her favourite. I kept wondering why this wine was not the longest of the three. When I served this to my wine buddies Marc, Oliver and Wolfgang the next day, they liked it best of the three, referring to this as more Gantenbein-like (alluding to the eastern Swiss Pinot Blanc he no longer produces). I could see what they meant when I retasted it leisurely by myself about 36 hours after I had opened the bottle. Dani found this simple and reminiscent of a relatively bland and acidic Swiss Chasselas (again, I feel the similarity must be due to the malo). Remo shrugged and said he could not stomach a full glass, handing it back to me. Rating: 86+/87-?

Bazaltbor Laposa Pincszet Badacsonyi Rizling Vlogats 2007
Vlogats means selection. Olasz Rizling/Welschriesling (not Rhine Riesling as one might think) from the Badacsony hill, fermented (dry) and aged in large barrels (≥1000 liters) and a several years old barrique. This is the same wine the bulk of which was blended into the Rizling2. Yet paler colour. Tarragon, rosemary and dill with a suggestion of rose petal mainly on the nose, overlaid with what Matthias described (not inappropriately) as cement dust. Faint dried coconut note to drier than Germanic (Riesling) Granny Smith apple. A touch tannic, but not dry (let alone oxidative). Lacks intensity at least at this stage, and although it seems to have some concentration, it is not too impressive in this regard either. Flatter if more minerally, Matthias said, my mom finds this vapid. There was much discussion if the ice spar/calcium scented minerality here fits the variety, but then, the fruit was too inexpressive to tell with certainty. The wine that appealed least to all present ironically, it is the one about Ambrus tells me: In 2007, this is the limited, prestige product of the winery. When I served this to my wine buddies Marc, Oliver and Wolfgang the next day, they thought it flat, adding that all three wines lack nerviness and that what they felt must be malo blurriness should be avoided at all cost (obviously, in a circle of avowing Riesling lovers, no one would mind higher-acid wines). Following the explanation of what had gone into this, what they would really have wanted to taste is the Rhine Riesling component of the Rizling2 (and, as Wolfgang added, any high-end Kknyel, of which he said it would be the one niche product he might lay out money for). When I retasted this leisurely by myself about 36 hours after I had opened the bottle, I finally began to understand why this should be the pride of the winery in this vintage there is an underlying nobility to the minerality here, a fractionally more aristocratic (albeit also in the sense of reserved) layeredness to the fruit, but then I wonder, does Welschriesling ever age so well that such subtleties come to the fore with bottle age? Dani was the only one I served this to who preferred it to the Rizling2, noting that at least this tastes a bit grassy, if not hay-like, plus it has more of a nicely thick mouthfeel, and it appears to be the most minerally. Remo thought this no less bland. Rating: 85+/86(+/-?)

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

J'ai gch vingt ans de mes plus belles annes au billard. Si c'tait refaire, je recommencerais. Roger Conti
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
How did Ambrus respond to your comments?

I have only just posted my TNs, guess he hasn't seen them yet. Why do you ask? I'm really urging him to participate in discussions here himself, especially of course on the wines from his region, he's so enthusiastic and knowledgeable, as you know. I'd love to hear his opinion.

Unfortunately, judging from wines from earlier vintages I've tried, I feel the 2007s may not be representative. I'm not one to defend wines made or provided by people I know and like, but I'll admit it was a bit painful to realise no one I showed these wines to liked them nearly as much as I did - and as I'm sure you can tell, I've had reservations myself. I'm used to the fact, of course, that not many people can muster my enthusiasm for the uniqueness of terroir expression or even minerality per se, but I have to admit that the wines from this vintage, perhaps due to malo even more than the shortcomings of the vintage itself, weren't too impressive in this regard either. What surprised me is that by Swiss and especially international standards (of affordable white wine in general, that is), I would have expected somewhat more favourable reactions from my family, friends and wine buddies. But I'm used to being in the minority when it comes to certain types of wine, and fine with it.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

J'ai gch vingt ans de mes plus belles annes au billard. Si c'tait refaire, je recommencerais. Roger Conti
 
originally posted by David from Switzerland:I have only just posted my TNs, guess he hasn't seen them yet. Why do you ask?

Just because I imagine he had higher opinions of the wines that you and your friends and (as you noted) he would probably not be shy about championing their merits. So was wondering how he engaged the critiques.

It is interesting/difficult to taste/contextualize those wines when one doesn't have regular exposure to them, but I'm sure there will be more good stuff coming out in the future.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Just because I imagine he had higher opinions of the wines that you and your friends and (as you noted) he would probably not be shy about championing their merits. So was wondering how he engaged the critiques.

It is interesting/difficult to taste/contextualize those wines when one doesn't have regular exposure to them, but I'm sure there will be more good stuff coming out in the future.

As you know, I wholeheartedly agree about the potential of the region and its wines, but don't underestimate Ambrus, he's really a fierce critic of them himself, always looking for ways to improve. Don't forget, historically speaking, Badacsony wasn't just yet another source for dry whites, just as Tokaj wasn't just yet another source for sweet wines.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

J'ai gch vingt ans de mes plus belles annes au billard. Si c'tait refaire, je recommencerais. Roger Conti
 
Hello Rahsaan, hello David, greetings to everyone,

I'm finally on this forum now! First, let me express my deep gratitude, David, for taking the time and posting these notes!

One question first, about something that is not clear for me:

originally posted by David from Switzerland:
TN: 2007 BazaltborIt is for this reason that the wine Matthias and my parents found most problematic was the Riesling it isnt of the fruity and obvious kind, and when I tried to discuss the soil notes and minerality, it turned out no one felt that specific ice spar/calcium dust fits the variety (Matthias said it smells like cement) the way they know and like Riesling (primarily from Alsace, Germany and the Wachau)...

Bazaltbor Laposa Pincszet Badacsonyi Rizling Vlogats 2007
Vlogats means selection. Olasz Rizling/Welschriesling (not Rhine Riesling as one might think) from the Badacsony hill... There was much discussion if the ice spar/calcium scented minerality here fits the variety, but then, the fruit was too inexpressive to tell with certainty.

Which variety you think the ice spar minerality doesn't fit? Welschriesling, Riesling or it doesn't fit either?
 
originally posted by Ambrus Bak:
Hello Rahsaan, hello David, greetings to everyone,

I'm finally on this forum now! First, let me express my deep gratitude, David, for taking the time and posting these notes!

You're welcome, always a pleasure! Great to "see" you here! Welcome!

originally posted by Ambrus Bak:
One question first, about something that is not clear for me:

originally posted by David from Switzerland:
TN: 2007 BazaltborIt is for this reason that the wine Matthias and my parents found most problematic was the Riesling it isnt of the fruity and obvious kind, and when I tried to discuss the soil notes and minerality, it turned out no one felt that specific ice spar/calcium dust fits the variety (Matthias said it smells like cement) the way they know and like Riesling (primarily from Alsace, Germany and the Wachau)...

Bazaltbor Laposa Pincszet Badacsonyi Rizling Vlogats 2007
Vlogats means selection. Olasz Rizling/Welschriesling (not Rhine Riesling as one might think) from the Badacsony hill... There was much discussion if the ice spar/calcium scented minerality here fits the variety, but then, the fruit was too inexpressive to tell with certainty.

Which variety you think the ice spar minerality doesn't fit? Welschriesling, Riesling or it doesn't fit either?

Great example of why I contacted you about the labelling earlier - as you can see it is confusing. Just a typo (German "Riesling" instead of the Hungarian "Rizling"). Invariably referring to the Rizling Vlogats - as you know, there was no Rheinriesling. Cleared up the paragraph in the original post above, adding a short explanation.

What happened is a bit tiresome to recount: I had to point out it's really Welschriesling and not Rhineriesling to every single person I poured a sample; then had to justify/explain to most of them (who had a hard time believing me, given the label reads "Rizling", and labelling Mller-Thurgau as Riesling or Riesling-Sylvaner is no longer permitted in Switzerland - a change still fresh in most people's memory) why/that it is legal to label it such; despite all this, the labelling prompted everyone to compare it to had just read on the label: Riesling. It's really distracting, but then, it's natural for people to compare new things to ones they know. Should probably mention most Swiss simply don't know Welschriesling.

As to the question what "fits", I'm really quoting the opinion of others there. Remember those earlier discussions with e.g. my parents and guests in February last year, when you brought along sample bottles and everyone (and with rare immediacy) felt Kknyel "fit" the basalt minerality "like a glove"? It's hard to explain why people are quick to agree on one thing and not another sometimes, useless to second-guess personal taste, but where people agree, I tend to believe there must be a reason (whereas it often seems to me as if there need be no reason at all for disagreement).

My personal opinion remains unchanged: I find basalt minerality different, and as such, per se interesting. Everything else appears to me to come down to individual wines (bottlings and vintages thereof), of which I don't feel I've tasted enough to jump to conclusions.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

J'ai gch vingt ans de mes plus belles annes au billard. Si c'tait refaire, je recommencerais. Roger Conti
 
Thank you, David!

Apart from a handful of wineries in Tokaj (and one winery in Badacsony, owned by Swiss businessman Philipp Oser) no one exports a significant amount of his/her white wine production from Hungary (with the possible exception of some low-quality mass producers that simply don't matter). On the domestic market, Rizling is still expected to be Welschriesling. My friend Bence would like to export in the near future, therefore, he plans to change the labels to avoid (at least some of the) confusion.

Something about Badacsony (cs in Hungarian is pronounced like tch in hitch and ny like gne in French Dordogne) and Soml (s is pronounced like sh in sheer and is simply a long o):

these two are the most famous of the basalt inselbergs of Hungary. As they are inselbergs (in particular, they have a sheer-sided basalt crest atop gentler slopes of sediments - the latter mainly mixtures of clay, sand and a lesser amount of loess) and the vines are grown on the sides the hills, not on their tops, the vineyard soils are not 100% volcanic. The closer to the crest, the more basalt is present in the soil (prehistoric collapses of rock columns on the side of the crest filled practically all the hillside with smaller and larger stones, boulders and rocks). Therefore, soil diversity is extremely high, its type usually changes within twenty meters.

Historically, Soml hill was considered a wine region of its own (now two smaller basalt inselbergs are also included in the AOC), whereas the Badacsony wine region always included at least several more inselbergs (most importantly, Szent Gyrgy-hegy - Saint George Hill) and some parts of the surrounding hilly range. The distance of Soml and Badacsony is only about 25 miles (less than the distance of Beaune from Dijon).

Basalt is much richer in minerals and less acidic than any other common volcanic rock (volcanism in Tokaj resulted in much more acidic rocks, mainly diverse types of rhyolite). Basalt of Badacsony region is especially rich in calcium, magnesium, iron, sodium and potassium (to mention only the ones usually noticeable in the wines). Vines themselves prefer less acidic soils.

Right before the slow decline of Hungarian viticulture began after the Phylloxera epidemic (the main step of the decline came only in the late 1960s though, when the government started enforcing quantity over quality), four wine regions were considered greatest within the country (and equally great among themselves), each in its own style, 'niche': Tokaj in (very) sweet wines, Badacsony in off-dry to semi-sweet wines, Csopak in dry to off-dry and Soml in bone-dry wines. Of these four, only Csopak isn't volcanic (red sandstone and dolomite bedrock - less minerally wines). Alexis Lichine wrote about the wines of Csopak, that "they are softer and richer than those of Badacsony. They belong among the best white wines of the world, they can compete with the best French and German wines as well." (Sorry for the back-translation from Hungarian, I didn't have time to go to the city and find the English original in the library). Csopak is also close to Badacsony, only 26 miles away. Up to a few years ago, dry Tokaji was never as highly regarded as Badacsonyi and Somli wines, partly because of its less attractive minerality. Before the Phylloxera epidemic, the three regions had many grape varieties in common and Soml is still halfway between Tokaj and Badacsony in this regard.
 
originally posted by David from Switzerland:
TN: 2007 Bazaltbor
Bazaltbor Laposa Pincszet Nagy-Somli Olasz Rizling 2007
Medium-soft ... minerality.

David,

could you explain that to me in detail, please?

I'm still only an aspiring winemaker. (Family and friends are very happy to finish off the little wine I make now, though). I hope to begin my 'new life' next summer...
 
I was against sending any 2007 wines to David myself, but the 2008s were in barrel at the time (most of them still are).

The Laposa winery is one of the two most highly regarded (by wine critics, wine merchants and buyers of fine wine of the country) in the Badacsony region (the other being the winery of Philipp Oser - Villa Tolnay) and one of the five (rather three) most highly regarded in the Soml region (this is the only quality oriented winery that is present in both regions).

I have retasted the Nagy-Somli Olasz Rizling and the Rizling2 several times in the last few weeks (the Badacsonyi Rizling Vlogats I tasted approx. 6 months ago). I try to recollect my experiences.

Before discussing each wine, let me emphasize my belief that their flavour profile is influenced by spontaneous malolactic fermentation (the type which does not undergo as a separate, 'secondary fermentation', but which happens sometime around the end of alcoholic fermentation) and prolonged lees contact far more than acceptable. IMHO, the easygoing nature, flabiness and low acidity is mainly caused by these influences (only in a lesser degree by the vintage - most people had to harvest rather early because of the heavy rains, otherwise noble rot - or worse, grey rot - would have affected the grapes too much; consequently the wines are less concentrated). I am only a friend of the winemaker, a future employee of his, therefore, I can only give advice to him. In my cellar I very much try to avoid malolactic fermentation (I wrote David an extremely long e-mail about the miseries) and never let the wine stay on its lees after fermentation.

The summer of 2007 was very hot, therefore, even with early harvesting, the sugar levels were adequately high, even though most of the grapes were not fully ripe (at least not aromatically). The heat might also have made the berries lose some of their aromas.

Most Hungarian winemakers (considering themselves to be producing - at least near - world-class white wine) follow a strict pattern (most of them without any questioning) which they believe is responsible in a large part for the greatness of white Burgundy - btonnage at least till the end of spring, coupled with 100% malolactic fermentation. Fermentation and aging they do in young (if not new) barrels from barriques to 500 liters in size (only a handful opt for larger barrels, up to 1000 liters). All this is rather just an internationalized style... They have no idea of any truly great white wine outside Burgundy, either (not even Chablis...) and will only politely smile at me if I tell them that there might be even greater elsewhere. I know of only a handful of Hungarian winemakers, who are considered to be good and dare question the above procedure (Bence is one of them). Even these few I don't find brave/radical enough.

Kknyelű (the grape variety and its wine) would be very interesting to discuss, I will be glad to tell anything I know in another comment if anyone is interested.

Nagy-Somli Olasz Rizling 2007

I found that this wine was in a closed phase for a few months (seems to me it's just leaving it now). I have to agree with it being "watery", "non-descript and rather bland" as well as short, but I remember it showing a touch of bitter almond-like aroma (usually caused by Welschriesling accumulating magnesium in its berries; magnesium is very abundant in basalt) and slight overripeness in the way typical to Welschriesling. Soml is much colder than Badacsony (despite their proximity), it might even be colder than Tokaj (not easy to compare as there aren't any meteorological data publicly available for Soml), therefore, ripening of the grapes is problematic in lesser vintages - this wine might have suffered almost as much from the vintage as from the malo. There is no contradiction between problematic ripening of grapes and overripeness in the wine - Welschriesling has very thin skins, therefore, in a vintage like 2007, not perfectly ripe grapes may get infected by Botrytis and become overripe in a few days, omitting the last stages of normal ripening.

Badacsonyi Rizling2 2007

I agree with David's description practically 100%. This showed me two faces most of the time - a limier (with a little nerviness) and a somewhat blander face (when it showed the latter, I usually found it oaky, albeit not very much).

Badacsonyi Rizling Vlogats 2007

When I tasted this six months ago, it was still in its primary phase - it had quite intense aromas of very ripe Welschriesling (more spicy then fruity), but not much else (no minerality at the time yet). It seemed the most promising of the three (I'm not so sure of that anymore).

Our experience with aging Welschriesling showed that it doesn't gain in any regard related to fruit but it can improve much in minerality and elegance.

I thought (in the last two months, not six months ago) that the qualitative difference between the Nagy-Somli Olasz Rizling and the other two is larger than David suggests in these notes. I will think this over.
 
originally posted by Ambrus Bak:
originally posted by David from Switzerland:
TN: 2007 Bazaltbor
Bazaltbor Laposa Pincszet Nagy-Somli Olasz Rizling 2007
Medium-soft ... minerality.

David,

could you explain that to me in detail, please?

I'm still only an aspiring winemaker. (Family and friends are very happy to finish off the little wine I make now, though). I hope to begin my 'new life' next summer...

I write TNs primarily as a reminder to myself, so all those micro-gradations I use are probably not very helpful. Note my use of "soft" need not mean anything negative (or I'd note "blurry", "flabby", "imprecise", "mediocre" etc.). I apparently thought the minerality per se typical enough, embedded but not unnoticeable, perhaps not strong enough to give wine the wine additional lift or shape - at any rate, you may have noticed I end my own impressions pointing to the wine's overall early harmony, which usually means no element/component part is sticking out (especially not in a negative way).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

J'ai gch vingt ans de mes plus belles annes au billard. Si c'tait refaire, je recommencerais. Roger Conti
 
Is this the place? Very interesting geology discussion...especially how varied the subsoils seem to be...

Basalt.jpg
It seems a bit unfortunate that grapes like Welschriesling can't be renamed somehow to express their uniqueness, rather than create confusion, but at any rate Ambrus, both your and David's descriptions make the wines sound quite interesting to me, despite the reservations mentioned.

Ambrus, can you describe your sense of what these grapes can accomplish, given good vintage conditions and optimum winemaking practices? (By the way, I'd be interested in hearing more about the individual characteristics of the grapes you are working with, including Keknyelu. Your example of how Welschriesling 's thin skin affects how it deals with ripening issues was helpful, for example.)

PS - David, may I suggest that next time you try serving these wines blind to your drinking compatriots?
 
One dumb question, Ambrus: Ever since I first visited the Badacsony back in the old communist days of mass production (1979 - 30 years already... goodness, how time flies...) I've been a fan of both kknyel and szrkebarat (pinot gris), which gain such distinction in that terroir. You don't produce any of them? In my more recent visits to Hungary I've been surprised at the relatively minor role played by native grape varieties in current wines.
 
originally posted by David from Switzerland:

Note my use of "soft" need not mean anything negative (or I'd note "blurry", "flabby", "imprecise", "mediocre" etc.). I apparently thought the minerality per se typical enough, embedded but not unnoticeable, perhaps not strong enough to give wine the wine additional lift or shape - at any rate, you may have noticed I end my own impressions pointing to the wine's overall early harmony, which usually means no element/component part is sticking out (especially not in a negative way).

That clears it up, thanks! I agree with you - the minerality is embedded. In Welschriesling (I find) it usually is, with the exception of less than a handful of the very best I ever tasted...
 
originally posted by VS:
One dumb question, Ambrus: Ever since I first visited the Badacsony back in the old communist days of mass production (1979 - 30 years already... goodness, how time flies...) I've been a fan of both kknyel and szrkebarat (pinot gris), which gain such distinction in that terroir. You don't produce any of them? In my more recent visits to Hungary I've been surprised at the relatively minor role played by native grape varieties in current wines.

Dear VS,

I do produce Kknyelű, David even posted a TN about it (and some other wines) on Wine therapy:

"Bak Pince Badacsonyi Kknyelű 2006
From 14-years-old vines from what Ambrus feels is a fair enough though hardly great site (and that is already the whole point: if it is true that better, perhaps even significantly more expressive and deep Kknyel can be made, it may indeed have the potential to be one of the most attractive, terroir-driven dry whites on the planet). Picked on the 31st of October, from a yield of 700 grams of fruit per plant. Also unfined, looks a tiny bit milkier and more yellow-green, if almost as pale as the Olasz Rizling. A bit flintier-smokier, more interesting minerality (more potassium to the basalt/volcanic soil here). A more tannic and firm wine, thanks to having spent three days on the skins, Ambrus says. 33 g/l dry extract. The higher 13.9% alcohol nonetheless integrate better. Tannic and viscous, tastes harmoniously dry, one can just sense the 14 g/l residual sugar is higher than in the Olasz Rizling. 8.9 g/l acidity, a goodly proportion of which malic. The longer this aired, the more its firmer grip, tannic, more structured mouthfeel, smoky-minerally expression and length convinced us of the potential of this grape variety. Quite concentrated. More power and grip on the finish, too. Steelier herb notes, pit fruit such as white plum. Fresher/more refreshing wine that even opened up some pineapple and grapefruit with airing. Quite obviously unique synergy here: the variety fits the typical minerality and metal notes here like a glove. Rating: 89+/90?"

(http://enemyvessel.com/forum/topic....rus+from+Hungary&Forum_Title=Wine+Discussions).

I experimented with Pinot gris (Szrkebart) as well (in 2005 and 2006), but found it too problematic (the 2006 could have been very good, but I was only learning at the time and made some mistakes - the final product is good but no more). IMHO, 2007 and 2008 weren't good for Pinot gris in Badacsony. I'm concentrating on late ripening varieties now - I am convinced that our future lies that way...
 
originally posted by Ambrus Bak: I experimented with Pinot gris (Szrkebart) as well (in 2005 and 2006), but found it too problematic...I'm concentrating on late ripening varieties now - I am convinced that our future lies that way...

What was problematic about pinot gris? It ripens too quickly?
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
please pass the basalt...Is this the place? Very interesting geology discussion...especially how varied the subsoils seem to be...

Basalt.jpg
It seems a bit unfortunate that grapes like Welschriesling can't be renamed somehow to express their uniqueness, rather than create confusion, but at any rate Ambrus, both your and David's descriptions make the wines sound quite interesting to me, despite the reservations mentioned.

Ambrus, can you describe your sense of what these grapes can accomplish, given good vintage conditions and optimum winemaking practices? (By the way, I'd be interested in hearing more about the individual characteristics of the grapes you are working with, including Keknyelu. Your example of how Welschriesling 's thin skin affects how it deals with ripening issues was helpful, for example.)

Dear Joel,

yes, it is the place, with the majority of the very best vineyards visible on this picture.

I'll try to answer your questions in detail. The main varieties (highest acreage) in Badacsony are Welschriesling, Pinot gris, Muscat ottonel. Two very important grape varieties with lower acreage are Kknyelű and Riesling. Three more or less local curiosities worthy of mention are Budai zld, Rzsakő and Juhfark (the latter is mostly grown in the neighboring wine region of Soml). There is a tiny bit of Muscat blanc petit grains as well.

Of Welschriesling I already wrote a few sentences. Here's some more. It's acreage in Badacsony, Soml and all the neighboring regions is above 60%. It is late ripening and extremely reliable. In Hungary, very good wine can be made of it even with low sugar levels (anywhere within Hungary, grown at the same plot, not even Riesling surpasses Welschriesling in this particular regard). It's drawbacks are: low acidity and thin skin (the berries can become overripe and/or Botrytized very easily and very fast). In exceptional vintages (when everything's perfect) or in cooler vintages, in vineyards with the highest possible altitude), it might become something like this:

"Nmeth Pince Badacsonyi Olaszrizling Kesoi Szret Asz-Domb 1997
What Ambrus refers to as the off-dry Welschriesling VT in our mail conversation, even though he insists none of them are late harvest selections (rather, the whole crop is picked in one go, much like Szamorodni in Tokaj Hegyalja). Also from the so-called Asz-hill. Medium-pale yellow-green. That burnt printer's ink note to the minerality, same as in the Riesling, must be a (basalt?) soil note! Highly impressive minerality and wine for a Welschriesling. Flinty watermelon with a slightly medicinal blackcurrant top note, initially verging (almost) on rubberiness. More oiliness to the mouthfeel, more alcoholic Sptlese-styled, Albino says, although no more than off-dry, boasting a fairly full body. Some fresh yellow cherry on the palate, with airing additional flavours of acacia forest floor and elderflower. I was surprised when Albino mentioned, justifiably so one might add, that the minerality is not irreminiscent of St. Saphorin or Dezaley (Western Swiss Chasselas no one has ever seen him taste or drink!). A bit less persistent on the finish than the Riesling, but the aftertaste carries on here. Cannot say I have tasted or drunk much Welschriesling that I liked as well or better, but it remains a grape variety that will never rock my world as Riesling does on a regular basis. About outstanding (subjectively almost) dry white, thus a great success for what it is. 12 hours later, although this now showed a soft (only the faintest, really!) Sherry top note, thus seemed less resistant to oxidation, we agreed this must be regarded, given what grape variety it is made from, the most exceptional wine of these three. Nicely full, with perfect alcohol integration, a lightly viscous balm-minty herbaceousness on the finish. Nevertheless, serving Welschriesling next to the real thing (Riesling!) is simply not fair.

...For those who have problems interpreting my "verbal scoring", the numerical correspondences are as follows:

79 and below = NOT GOOD (i.e. no need to figure out exactly)
80 84 = GOOD (same as 16 and over in the European 20-point system)
85 89 = VERY GOOD (same as 17 and over; I sometimes use EXCELLENT or ALMOST-OUTSTANDING to indicate 88 89)
90 94 = OUTSTANDING (same as 18 and over)
95 99 = GREAT (or CLASSIC, same as 19 and over; I sometimes use NEAR-PERFECT to indicate a 98 99 score)
100 = PERFECT (20/20)"

(David originally posted this TN on Wine therapy, but it's not available there anymore)

That is the very best and most expressive (in terms of minerality) dry/off-dry Welschriesling I ever tasted. I believe that to make a (dry) Welschriesling that surpasses this wine, one would need an exceptional vintage and an exceptional plot with old vines, gobelet trained. There are extremely few of these on Badacsony hill (if any), but there is a more substantial chance on Soml hill.

Pinot gris produces too much sugar - at least in Badacsony. By the time its aromatic ripeness reaches the level I deem desirable, its potential alcohol surpasses 15%... Moreover, with the exception of cool vintages, the crucial period of the ripening of its aromas falls into late August - which is almost invariably too hot for this stage. Therefore, most modern Badacsonyi Pinot gris is more or lass bland, high in alcohol (or has substantial residual sugar) and very low in acid (that could buffer the other components). In cool vintages, it can have ample acidity, but even then, its sugar will be too much for making dry wine (and, in such vintages, the berries usually Botrytize). The climate of Hungary became significantly warmer in the last 20-25 years when compared to e.g. the 1960-1985 period. Unless the Pinot gris vines are trained to produce high yields (or the grapes are harvested very early), there will be no balance in the dry wine. On the other hand, high yields and/or early harvest give dilute wines, sometimes even with green flavors. I think that unless the climate will become somewhat cooler again, no more Pinot gris will be made in Badacsony that could live up to the old fame (and to what you have tasted 30 years ago).

Muscat ottonel I find unworthy of discussion.

Kknyelű - the legendary variety of the region. Has functionally female flowers (it has stamina but no pollen). Requires the pollen of some other variety for fertilization. If, during flowering, the weather is too cold, too cloudy, too wet OR too hot, too dry - fertilization will be very poor, resulting in very loose bunches (5 berries per bunch instead of 100) and low yields (from the perspective of quality wine production this might be considered an advantage, loose bunches become infected with diseases much less easily). Very late ripening variety, with very thick skins. In Hungary, it is the most resistant white wine grape to Botrytis (grey and noble rot), overripening and brown rot (producing acetic acid). After vraison, it is extremely sensitive to excess heat (above 35 C in August and above 30 C in September, approximately), especially when the weather is dry. They say in Badacsony that Kknyelű is the grape of the lords (in the sense that only the rich can afford growing it...) I still believe that it can give the best dry wine in Badacsony (and possibly in Hungary) - naturally, not in vintages like 2003. Its wine is usually high in acidity (with a high proportion of malic acid) and full-bodied with high sugar-free dry extract. It is expected to be austere and minerally. Historically, it was usually off-dry, due to the high ripeness. Let me quote David's post again (http://enemyvessel.com/forum/topic....rus+from+Hungary&Forum_Title=Wine+Discussions):

"The most memorable wine to me (and all to whom I showed the nine wines Ambrus brought along), by far, was the Kknyel. I have not yet visited the Badacsony region, but judging from what I have tasted so far, there is no doubt in my mind that this is the local niche product, as there seems to be truly unique potential synergy of grape variety and soil characteristics (as a matter of fact, though, it cannot be planted/farmed in monoculture, more on that further below).

Bak Pince Badacsonyi Kknyel 2006
From 14-years-old vines from what Ambrus feels is a fair enough though hardly great site (and that is already the whole point: if it is true that better, perhaps even significantly more expressive and deep Kknyel can be made, it may indeed have the potential to be one of the most attractive, terroir-driven dry whites on the planet)."

(See more of this TN quoted in above comment). I remember David's mother telling me that "this would be a great wine, if it was as good on the palate as it is on the nose". There is some little inconsistency in the wine - quite probably caused by my winemaking faults. In my very limited experience, I found that the only wine Kknyelű is (at least a little bit) similar to is Alsace Riesling.
 
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