While we are defining terms, how about 'Hipster Wine' ?

Seth,
I tasted with Abe in July; he makes some very interesting and unusual stuff, most of it with a bit too much alcohol for me. But I won't forget the wines.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Seth,
I tasted with Abe in July; he makes some very interesting and unusual stuff, most of it with a bit too much alcohol for me
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I just read the Ny Times piece and they quote Abe as saying he is not a big fan of fruit flavors and does his best to banish them from the wine. If that is the case, why are the wines so alcoholic? From what I could tell, it sounds like the style is to pick really late surmaturite grapes and then ferment them completely dry?
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
I just read the Ny Times piece and they quote Abe as saying he is not a big fan of fruit flavors and does his best to banish them from the wine.
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Rahasaan,

I must have missed that comment.

I don't think Abe dislikes fruit flavors; he didn't give me that impression at all. He does seem to like complexity, though, and I think he uses that term in its most comprehensive sense.
Some oxidative techniques, unusual varieties and sources, skin-contact for some of the whites, etc. It did seem that the winery had lots of experiments going on.
My reaction to his stuff is a lot like Asimov's; some wines I find remarkable, others not so much. But they all seem to share fairly high alcohols (at least by my standards). High prices, as well.

Since I'm going to try a white wine fermentation with full skin contact, it was instructive to talk to him about the wines he does that way. But I'd like to keep the alcohols a bit lower and I plan on using an approach that is less oxidative. Anyway, it was a good visit.

And as mentioned, the wines are not forgettable.

Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
I just read the Ny Times piece and they quote Abe as saying he is not a big fan of fruit flavors and does his best to banish them from the wine.
Click to expand...

Rahasaan,

I must have missed that comment.
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It was in the article, not the blog:

In the course of his cellar work, he said, I do everything to banish fruit flavors.

I don't think Abe dislikes fruit flavors; he didn't give me that impression at all. He does seem to like complexity, though, and I think he uses that term in its most comprehensive sense. Some oxidative techniques, unusual varieties and sources, skin-contact for some of the whites, etc. It did seem that the winery had lots of experiments going on.
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Does sound like a comprehensive definition of complexity so I guess I'll have to taste the wines to find out for myself. Am sure they are interesting and perhaps they work well with some of the grapes he is using, but it reminds me of the Clemens Busch style for riesling and the Sebastien Riffault style for sauvignon blanc, neither of which have convinced me. Not sure of the details but perhaps an analogy could be drawn to some of the Angeli chenin wines (heavy ripeness, rich nose, dry palate) but those seemed to support the structure better, at least to my taste.
 
By all means, try the wines.
They all have fanciful names and I can't recall all of them, but the verdejo is quite interesting in a big-assed way and the sauvignon that was fermented on the skins ("The Prince in his Cave"?) is pretty damn good.
He also did a skin-contact pinot grigio that is the color of very dark rose and is about 18% abv - weird but, at the same time, it sucks you in.
I don't know what to make of his line-up - other than to say they are really different.
And that is something in itself.
Best, Jim
 
I had met Abe several years back down in NYC, and saw him again recently here in Boston. There was a small industry tasting with his distributor here, where his wines were indeed quite polarizing. He stopped by the shop the next day, and I enjoyed spending more time getting to know the man and his philosophy. As someone who nearly went to the oddly run university where he was a Professor, I think I may be wired for his type of world view.

I'm happy to sell and promote the wines, and personally find them fun to drink (albeit as part of a more considered menu). They are indeed big in alcohol and unique in character. And while looking at the variety of techniques he employs it would be hard to label him as a "minimal interventionalist," I do find a certain balance within them that speaks more to soul than spoof.

Abe's wines come from the vinous equivalent of red-headed stepchildren, whether by plan (as in gnarly old vines in the scortching middle of bulk country) or providence (buying the botryisized grapes he sees another winemaker cursing on her sorting table). I think he chooses his varied techniques in response to what he sees as specific algebraic quandries, and solving for a final result that shows "aesthetic truth."

To my palate/mind/soul, he's at least on to something.
 
I think Connell comes close to it (another reason to be happy he's back).

Hipster wines are those that aspire to Clos-Tue-Boeuf in philosophy and appearance, but have no idea how to get their other than to mimic or perform a caricature of them (mostly having to do with beards, cigarette smoke, and small cuvee's of unsulfured wines).

However, at this point, with Thierry and Jean-Marie scaling back from the edge, they might not be the archetype. Rather it is the image of them (circa 2000?) that
performs that role.
 
originally posted by VLM:
Hipster winesHipster wines are those that aspire to Clos-Tue-Boeuf in philosophy and appearance, but have no idea how to get their other than to mimic or perform a caricature of them
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How is it possible to know in what spirit a wine was made, when you open a bottle? Do you find that information on the back label?

In all seriousness, do we need to spend so much time focussing on the winemaker's philosophy and goals? Isn't it simply possible to pull a cork and evaluate the wine based on what comes out of the bottle? I think more blind tasting (for objective analysis, not juvenile guessing games) is needed.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM:
Hipster winesHipster wines are those that aspire to Clos-Tue-Boeuf in philosophy and appearance, but have no idea how to get their other than to mimic or perform a caricature of them
Click to expand...

How is it possible to know in what spirit a wine was made, when you open a bottle? Do you find that information on the back label?
Click to expand...

Well, sometimes it's on the back label.

I tend to use "hipster" more loosely than I use "spoofulated".

I associate it with hipsterish looking kids with a stand at the dive proclaiming semi-carbonic and sans soufre as if that was the point in and of itself. The term "hipster" refers to something fashionable, so if I guess if I had to be more specific, I would say the same applies to the wine.

Frankly, I can't completely defend my use of the word and say that I will always use it consistently.

In all seriousness, do we need to spend so much time focussing on the winemaker's philosophy and goals? Isn't it simply possible to pull a cork and evaluate the wine based on what comes out of the bottle? I think more blind tasting (for objective analysis, not juvenile guessing games) is needed.
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I think blind tasting is fine, but I find it more juvenile than more open comparative tastings. Knowing the wine helps me to understand it. To use Clos Tue-Bouef as an example, they go through stages where they are very difficult to taste and could easily be dismissed blind, but I've been tasting them long enough to have faith in Thiery and Jean-Marie and "know" where the wine will end up.

The reason to focus on a winemakers philosophy is that there are wines that are just philosophy. Too much philosophy (and having a philosophy is more like having a doctrine than being philosophical) is always a red flag to me. Doctrinaire approaches are at odds with the fundamental fact that great wines are living things that need to be shepherded with flexibility and care.
 
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