NWR: NY Times Top 17 Bagels in NYC

Yule Kim said:
... the best hack is to just buy a loaf of sourdough and put cream cheese and lox on that...
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I'm back in Nyc now, but I lived for many years outside of Nyc and it never occurred to me to find a hack. Maybe my Bagel Die-Hard cred will get questioned. I've always just focused on the best baked goods in the local area (but without cream cheese, which I've never liked)....

Because I do love bagels and they go deep in my psyche from childhood, but I don't think they rise to the heights of some other breads/baked goods, which is why I refuse to wait on those Viral Lines.
 
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Rahsaan said:
I'm back in Nyc now, but I lived for many years outside of Nyc and it never occurred to me to find a hack. Maybe my Bagel Die-Hard cred will get questioned. I've always just focused on the best baked goods in the local area (but without cream cheese, which I've never liked)....

Because I do love bagels and they deep in my psyche from childhood, but I don't think they rise to the heights of some other breads/baked goods, which is why I refuse to wait on those Viral Lines.
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tbh, I don't eat lox and cream cheese that often either. But, sometimes, making an open-faced sandwich with lox and cream cheese (onions, tomato, capers) on a slice of Tartine oat porridge bread really does hit the spot (especially for a Sunday brunch)

If I really wanted to put the effort in, probably ordering out the smoked salmon from Swan Oyster Depot (you don't have to wait in line to pick up) would be the ultimate SF lox and cream cheese experience. But getting up to Nob Hill is a bit too much for me now.
 
Jeff Grossman said:
It's a jumping lunch street... also two dumpling shops, a Latinx place, an Indian place, a hidden sushi shop, Madman Espresso, and a bunch more.
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I actually saw this humorous video about the part of 42nd street that borders Bryant Park and how it got the nickname "Slop Alley" because of all the slop bowl chains on it. Linked below...apparently the ultimate midtown NYC lunch experience.

 
Jayson Cohen said:
I agree. I've always found their lox too salty. I also don't like Barney Greengrass's bagels or lox, and I lived 5 minutes from there for 17 years. Among the NYC classics, I have a strong preference for Zabar's fish, and their bagels are decent too (used to be better).
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I think the whitefish salad at Russ and Daughters is the thing to go for. I always found it really satisfying.

I finally got a lox and sturgeon sandwich from there a couple of years ago. Lox was good; sturgeon was kind of rubbery and disappointing.
 
Russ and Daughters has terrible bagels but great bialys (I think they get them from Kossar?)

Unless they’ve changes suppliers in the last 5 years, I suppose,that’s possible.
 
Jay Miller said:
Russ and Daughters has terrible bagels
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Right. That very phrase got me in trouble in some online forum years ago when Jonathan Gold z''l (former LA times food critic) chimed in quite angrily to berate me about how very, very, VERY wrong I was.

Still wondering if anyone here has had an Apollo bagel (they do have 6 locations, I think)?
 
mark e said:
Still wondering if anyone here has had an Apollo bagel (they do have 6 locations, I think)?
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I think the demographic skews a lot younger and more foolish than the handful of curmudgeons we have left on this board! But by all accounts, it appears to be more of a sandwich than a bagel, which is not my thing. But I'm sure it's tasty and maybe the lines have died down somewhere, so perhaps should try.
 
Rahsaan said:
I think the demographic skews a lot younger and more foolish than the handful of curmudgeons we have left on this board! But by all accounts, it appears to be more of a sandwich than a bagel, which is not my thing. But I'm sure it's tasty and maybe the lines have died down somewhere, so perhaps should try.
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Don't know about the sandwich thing, but the bagels - apart from the long(er) fermentation and sourdough rising - are pretty traditional: low hydration, high protein flour, no sugar, malt extract and diastatic malt, and they are boiled.
 
I got Liberty Bagels today as foreshadowed, and damn they are fabulous. Large size (which I like mostly for how that affects texture), crisp on outside, chewy and tasty but not dense or bready on the inside. My wife, who can run with the best bagel snobs, said, "I can't believe I'm saying this, but they are perfect."

I'll try Apollo at some point.
 
mark e said:
Don't know about the sandwich thing, but the bagels - apart from the long(er) fermentation and sourdough rising - are pretty traditional: low hydration, high protein flour, no sugar, malt extract and diastatic malt, and they are boiled.
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I've never been, but people talk about the sourdough and the texture as being 'not traditional' for Nyc. But those words are a moving target. Who knows. Maybe I'll try soon.
 
Jayson Cohen said:
I got Liberty Bagels today as foreshadowed, and damn they are fabulous. Large size (which I like mostly for how that affects texture), crisp on outside, chewy and tasty but not dense or bready on the inside. My wife, who can run with the best bagel snobs, said, "I can't believe I'm saying this, but they are perfect."

I'll try Apollo at some point.
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We probably agree on everything except size. For me, anything over 110 grams (3.88 oz) is a roll, not a bagel. When I bake them I usually shoot for 95-100 g max.
 
Nice overview in the NYT today about how boutique bagel producers are joining with private equity for scale. Maybe a slice of the magic gets lost, but directionally an improvement over Bruegger's Bagels and the like.

But, as noted, none of these places actually make money on bagels. It's from overcharging people on the sandwich toppings, which is where my interests always conflict!
 
Rahsaan said:
Nice overview in the NYT today about how boutique bagel producers are joining with private equity for scale. Maybe a slice of the magic gets lost, but directionally an improvement over Bruegger's Bagels and the like.

But, as noted, none of these places actually make money on bagels. It's from overcharging people on the sandwich toppings, which is where my interests always conflict!
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Julia Moskin has not done her homework when she says "With trend-obsessed young consumers posting on social media about Courage Bagels in Los Angeles, Boichik Bagels in Berkeley, and Apollo and PopUp Bagels in New York, the demand for hand-rolled, kettle-boiled bagels has suddenly exploded." She is right about boiled, because a bagel must be boiled, but boy, is she wrong about hand-rolled. Apollo uses a divider/rounder (chunk of dough goes in 22 little balls come out) and then the poke-and-stretch method (less skilled bakers can do it) rather than hand-rolled. A whole new bunch of bagel places are - horrors! - using a bagel former machine where the dough goes in, then perfect rounds with a hole come out. Not traditional nor ideal. However, this results in huge upscaling of locations with central commissaries. In any case, you cannot make a decent bagel without overnight fermentation, and here I am only referring to yeasted bagels. I am absolutely not a fan of bagels with a very open crumb, as a sourdough bread might have.
 
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mark e said:
I am absolutely not a fan of bagels with a very open crumb...
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Is anyone? (Although upthread you were the one telling me Apollo sounded 'traditional')

Regardless, maybe there is a generation (or three) that formed their tastes with the flabby mess of Brueggers and Lenders and the like. Which is why these new places do seem like a directional improvement for me. The same way Chipotle and Panera have been a welcome improvement over Burger King and Taco Bell. I'm obviously not going to any of these places on a regular basis, but nice for them to be there in case of emergency.
 
Rahsaan said:
Is anyone? (Although upthread you were the one telling me Apollo sounded 'traditional')

Regardless, maybe there is a generation (or three) that formed their tastes with the flabby mess of Brueggers and Lenders and the like. Which is why these new places do seem like a directional improvement for me. The same way Chipotle and Panera have been a welcome improvement over Burger King and Taco Bell. I'm obviously not going to any of these places on a regular basis, but nice for them to be there in case of emergency.
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Not that I’m in any disagreement with your central premise, but I’d say rather that Panera was an upgrade to Subway. The general movement away from burger joints is a separate trend in fast food.
 
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