Orange wine west - starter notes

Florida Jim

Florida Jim
I did not take notes but since I havent seen a post describing the leftcoast version of the orange wine tasting, Ill give brief impressions here.

Paolo Bea 2006, Santa Chiara:
I have some experience with this and really enjoyed this bottle as well; clear and complex but not overpowering.

Frank Cornelissen 2006 MunJebel 3 Bianco:
Smelled like turpentine and I found it ponderous in the mouth; dumped it.

Cowan Cellars2008 Sauvignon Blanc:
Out of place for color but not a bad showing.

Monasterio Suore Cistercensi 2007 Coenobium Rusticum:
Simply stellar; the best orange wine ever for me this was just packed with nuance and character while maintaining excellent balance and cohesion.

Movia 2005 Lunar:
Got better as the evening went along but was rough at the outset; more strongly flavored than most.

Natural Process Alliance 2008 Chardonnay:
Cloudy but it to opened with time in the glass and I thought it had its own unique stamp pretty nice.

Damijan 2003 Kaplja:
This wine and the following wine were so similar Ill let this one note suffice; paler than most of the orange wines, soft and easy to drink.

Gravner 2001 Ribolla Anfora:
See above.

La Stoppa 2004 Ageno:
Not my cup of vino; disjointed in an odd way but still quite interesting as it seems different from most of the wines and very complex.

Radikon 2002 Ribolla:
No memory.

Vodopivec 2004 Vitovska:
No memory.

Zidarich 2000 Vitovska:
No memory.

Hopefully others who attended will chime in.

(Aside: I am not fan of tastings over 6 people but Slaton did this well; it was informal but with just enough structure so that people got a good chance to evaluate. If more larger tastings were like this, I'd attend more.)

Best, Jim
 
Jim, thanks for getting this started. I probably won't have my incredibly brief, nearly nonexistent, certainly useless notes finished until tomorrow but I'll definitely chime in then.
 
Interesting notes, especially where we differ. I'm a little surprised at the MunJebel 3 note; I was much more taken with the wine. As for the Ageno, I'm told it was controversial at the East Coast version, but haven't yet heard the argument against it.
 
Thor,
The Rusticum was so very fine - of course, it came early in the tasting and benefitted by not having so many similar wines in front of it.
I had not heard of it before and will make an effort to hunt for it - especially since you have had previous bottles that more matched my experience than yours in NYC.
Best, Jim
 
The Rusticum chez moi rocked the house. The Rusticum chez Levi was iffy at best. I'd bet on the former experience, based on group-tasting history. But honestly, who really knows?
 
I had the 07 Rusticum the next day, again, at lunch, and it was layered, thick, complex, gorgeous; I think perhaps it showed better than the evening before.
 
I'd be really surprised if the Rusticum is filtered. Jim, they have bottles at Terroir. More reason for a visit, not that you needed any.

I thought the Bea Santa Chiara performed best at Orange Wine West. The only real abomination was the 2000 Zidarich Vitovska. The nose was absolutely dominated by stale urine. It was difficult to convince myself to taste the wine.

For the Cornelissen -- it performed as expected. If you like his super-natural (to borrow a phrase from Guilhaume and Luc) wines, then you would have been happy with this bottle of Munjebel 3. I think the wines are interesting, and felt the same about this bottle.
 
ORANGE WINES (WHITE GRAPES FERMENTED WITH EXTENDED SKIN CONTACT) BLINDTASTED - La Ciccia, San Francisco, California (7/30/2009)


This is a new category to me, as I'd only tried a couple of these unusual wines prior to this tasting. For an excellent summary of the background of these wines, see this piece on Thor Iverson's oenologic blog: http://oenologic.blogspot.com/2009/08/adventures-in-skin-trade.html

There were 11 of us on hand for this tasting, seated at two tables. Our two orange flights, consisting of six wines each, were poured blind, and we had about an hour to linger over each flight. We later learned that Slaton put most of the less expensive and younger wines in the first flight. While I quite enjoyed several of these wines, and applaud the spirit of experimentation and innovation that they represent, the jury is still out for me on the future of this particular branch of winemaking. The high acidity and tannic nature of most of them may make them difficult to enjoy in their youth (and the rather unstable nature of a few of them makes one wonder how well they will age). I think they're pretty tricky to pair with food as well. There seems to be a consensus that the most ideal pairing for orange wines is uni, or sea urchin, and we were fortunate that La Ciccia was able to obtain some and offer us a sea urchin pasta so we could sample that pairing. My other concern about these prolonged skin contact whites (some of which are also aged in amphorae and other exotic vessels), is that they are winemaking wines and not wines of terroir. Virtually all of them had much more in common with each other, in terms of color, texture, acidity, tannin and flavors, than they do other white grape based wines of their particular area. Nonetheless, I do look forward to sampling more of these with some bottle age on them, and to trying some by other producers. My favorite wine of the tasting was the '06 Paolo Bea Santa Chiara, followed by the '04 La Stoppa Ageno and the '08 Natural Process Alliance Chard.

The Sardinian cooking (mainly with local ingredients) generally went well with the wines, especially the sea urchin pasta and the tender pan roasted pork loin drizzled with cooked grapes must. A good dish on its own, but poor pairing with these (or virtually any) wines was my entree of pan seared tuna, as the olive sugo sauce was much too peppery for a palate already dealing with unusually tannic white-grape-based wines.

Many thanks to Slaton for organizing us and the wines for this tasting, and for picking La Ciccia as the venue. Thanks to Slaton also for the info included in parentheticals in the TNs below on the length of skin contact and other winemaking details.

Jim, Jack and Slaton


Sardinian Vermentino opener

with our appetizers, including tuna salume, sardines, and pizza al pesto con patate e pancetta


2006 6 Mura Vermentino di Gallura - Italy, Sardinia, Vermentino di Gallura
Medium canary yellow color; nice lemon rind, herbal, tart peach and very minerally nose; tasty, crisp, tart lemon, mineral palate with medium-plus acidity; medium finish 91+ pts. (91 pts.)

1st Orange Wine Blind Flight

I enjoyed four of the wines in this flight, had a hard time with the Cornelissen MunJebel (which I'm told requires a lot of airing, and can change a lot over hours and days), and was disappointed with what turned out to be the Rusticum, as I've had this wine before and enjoyed the prior bottle a lot more. The Paolo Bea, as mentioned above, was my WOTT; the Natural Process Alliance Chard was the least like anything else in the tasting, but complex and good; and the Movia Lunar was also quite good. One of our party that evening, wine board celebrity Florida Jim, was the maker of the Sauvignon Blanc which I thought was very impressive for a barrel sample.


Fregula with fresh Mendocino sea urchin


2006 Frank Cornelissen MunJebel Bianco 3 Sicilia IGT - Italy, Sicily, Sicilia IGT
Slightly cloudy light medium orange color with clear meniscus; VA, smoky, sour, kumquat nose; very acidic, tart kumquat palate with a bitter note and hint of artichoke; medium finish (Blend of Carricante, Grecanico Dorato, Coda di Volpe; vinified like a red wine, with long skin-contact; Jack, who's had this a number of times, says it improves with several days of being opened) (82 pts.)
2006 Paolo Bea Bianco Santa Chiara Umbria IGT - Italy, Umbria, Umbria IGT
Lovely bright tangerine orange color with gold and red lights and clear meniscus; complex hibiscus, tart sage, honey and kumquat nose; tart kumquat, mineral, tart apricot, dried apricot palate with roundness, balance and depth; medium-plus finish (my WOTT; blend of Grechetto, Malvasia, Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc and Garganega; 16-day fermentation on skins, finished in stainless steel) (92 pts.)
2007 Monastero Suore Cistercensi Coenobium Rusticum Lazio IGT - Italy, Latium, Lazio IGT
Light medium orange color with pale meniscus; VA, tart orange, a little oxidized on nose; tart, pinched, mineral, tart orange palate with bite, medium-plus acidity and firm tannins; medium finish (not as good as the bottle I tried earlier in the year; Trebbiano, Malvasia, Verdicchio, Grechetto; 15-day fermentation with the skins, and extended lees contact) (85 pts.)
2005 Movia Lunar - Slovenia, Primorje, Gorika Brda
Light medium cloudy orange color; smoky, tart orange, cantelope, cherry pie and nutmeg nose; a little tight, tart orange, orange melon, tart apricot palate with soft texture; medium finish 90+ pts. (Ribolla Gialla, from 65 yr old vines; whole grape clusters are placed in barrels. The wine is never pressed off the skins or racked, and after 7 months the free-run juice is bottled unfiltered.) (90 pts.)
2008 Cowan Cellars Sauvignon Blanc Silver Pines Vineyard - USA, California, North Coast, Napa / Sonoma
Barrel sample - light medium canary yellow color with clarity; crisp, minerally, tart grapefruit, floral, high pitched nose with a sharp note; tasty, poised, complex, tart lime and grapefruit palate with great minerality; long finish 90-92 pts. (13-day cold soak with no sulfur, followed by 15-day alcoholic fermentation before pressing off skins; full malo) (90 pts.)
2008 Natural Process Alliance Chardonnay "Skin Fermented" Sonoma Coast - USA, California, Sonoma County, Sonoma Coast
Cloudy light medium yellow color with orange lights; clementine, baked lemon, floaty, tart apricot nose with an intriguing herbal note; tasty, tart pear, lemon, clementine, mineral and lemon sorbet palate with texture, hardly discernible as Chardonnay; medium-plus finish (18 days on the skins, entire alcoholic fermentation, w/ twice daily punchdowns, then pressed off to neutral barrels) (91 pts.)

2nd Orange Wine Blind Flight

There was more similarity amongst the wines in this flight than there was in flight 1. Despite a touch of brett, I liked the Ageno the best for its complexity. The Gravner and Vodopivec Vitovska were both intriguing wines, and I look forward to trying more of those with additional bottle age. The Collio had a lovely nose, and may need time to develop. The one that was most offputting (the distinct urine smell, the sweetness and firm tannins on the palate) was the Zidarich. I was thinking it might be an off bottle, but Slaton reported that he tried what was left in the bottle over the next two days, and that it improved tremendously in that time.

pan seared Ahi Tuna served with Sardinian Olives sugo and pureed peas


2001 Gravner Ribolla Gialla Anfora Venezia Giulia IGT - Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Venezia Giulia IGT
Light orange color; focused, creamy, tart mandarin orange nose with some VA; tight, tart lemon, tart orange, mandarin orange slices, mineral palate with a sense of salinity; medium finish 90+ pts. (6 to 7 month maceration on skins in terracotta amphorae, followed by 3 yrs in "botte," large barrels that are used vintage after vintage) (90 pts.)
2003 Damijan Podversic Collio Kaplja - Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Collio
Light medium orange color with clear meniscus; intriguing, lime honey, floral, butterscotch nose; tangy, tart lemon, cantelope palate with a touch of butterscotch and a sense of smoke; medium finish (Chardonnay, Malvasia Istriana, Tocai Friulano) (89 pts.)
2004 La Stoppa Ageno Emilia IGT - Italy, Emilia-Romagna, Emilia IGT
Medium red orange color with ruby lights and clear meniscus; big, intriguing, brett, red grapefruit, tart blood orange, herbal and lime nose; unusual tart blood orange, kumquat, clementine, mineral palate with depth and such firm tannins, they give the wine an almost fibrous texture, needs a few years; medium finish (Malvasia Bianca, Trebbiano and Ortrugo; 30-day maceration on skins, then pressed into neutral barrels & stainless steel tanks) (91 pts.)
2000 Zidarich Carso Vitovska - Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Carso
Light medium golden yellow color with pale meniscus; rest home and/or diabetic urine nose with minerals and dried orange; tart orange, sweet urine, tangy, firm tannins, disjointed palate; medium finish (8 to 10 days skin contact, then racked into mid-sized Slavonian casks. Note from Slaton: from the wine we drank it would appear Zidarich had not yet started using extended skin contact back in 2000 vintage) (77 pts.)
2002 Azienda Agricola Stanislao Radikon Ribolla Gialla Venezia Giulia IGT - Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Venezia Giulia IGT
Medium orange color with red lights and clear meniscus; high pitched, tart orange, mineral, yam nose with some reduction; tart orange, baked or dried orange, kumquat palate with medium acidity; medium finish (3 and 1/2 month maceration on the skins, including entire alcoholic fermentation; 4 times daily punchdowns, then racked into neutral "botte," large barrels that are used vintage after vintage, for 36 mo.; no SO2 ever added) (88 pts.)
2004 Vodopivec Vitovska Venezia Giulia IGT - Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Venezia Giulia IGT
Light medium orange color with red lights and clear meniscus; appealingly unusual, cherry koolaid powder and cantelope nose; solid, tart cantelope, caramel, yellow raspberries palate with a touch of butterscotch, firm tannins and a sense of skins; medium-plus finish 90+ pts. (15-day fermentation on the skins, then racked into "botte," large barrels that are used vintage after vintage, and aged 2 yrs.) (90 pts.)

a little red for the road

Our last wine was another Jim Cowan ("Florida Jim") production.


2007 Cowan Cellars Syrah Dry Stack Vineyard - USA, California, North Coast, Bennett Valley
Bright red violet color; rather herbaceous, tart red fruit and mineral nose; slightly concentrated, tart red fruit, mineral, tart plum palate, with focus, that's very reminiscent of Cru Beaujolais; medium finish 90+ pts. (1 barrel made, won't be commercially released) (90 pts.)

La Ciccia chef/owner Massimiliano Conti


Posted from CellarTracker
 
The Carema was a reused bottle (though astute readers may recognize it from elsewhere). The NPA chardonnay is distributed in stainless steel 'kleen kanteens', which wouldn't really have worked in a blind tasting context.

Offtopic, but is the board rather sluggish and unresponsive for anyone else today?
 
My notes weren't entirely complete. I can offer these thoughts.

Of the 9 orange wines, I enjoyed the
2007 Monastero Suore Cistercensi Coenobium Rusticum Lazio IGT
2005 Movia Lunar
2001 Gravner Ribolla Gialla Anfora Venezia Giulia IGT
the most.

It's a little difficult to make absolute determinations, these were certainly worthy and enjoyable as well.
2006 Paolo Bea Bianco Santa Chiara Umbria IGT
2002 Azienda Agricola Stanislao Radikon Ribolla Gialla Venezia Giulia IGT
2004 Vodopivec Vitovska Venezia Giulia IGT
The last two were very similar.

The 2003 Damijan Podversic Collio Kaplja didn't appeal and the ever controversial 2006 Frank Cornelissen MunJebel Bianco 3 Sicilia IGT suffered from what I'll call handling and service issues. What
I mean by that is in order for his wines to show their best, they require some steps be taken that
take some planning, time and effort. An event of this kind makes that difficult to do; for that reason I would reserve judgement. The 2004 La Stoppa Ageno Emilia IGT was the darkest and most "powerful"
of the group and was an outlier for that reason. I felt the need to re-calibrate my palate to appreciate
what this had to offer. Youthful and somewhat raw, some more years in the cellar seem appropriate.

The 2000 Zidarich Carso Vitovska was blooming with sulfurous aromas and not enjoyable.

Having attended this and also having read various postings and notes, it has become clear that these wines are quite variable in style and in how tasters perceive them. Not only does there seem to be
wide bottle variation, once opened they evolve dramatically. "Consistent notes" are not to be found
regarding orange wines it seems.

The sea urchin and pork loin dishes matched well. The place is small, making things pretty cozy and bustling, which can make deliberative assessment challenging. However, I enjoyed the event and
appreciated the opportunity to taste these unusual wines.
 
Flight 1

2006 Frank Cornelissen "MunJebel 3 Bianco" Sicilia IGT
Very cloudy. Intense Gueze / Kombucha / cider vinegar character, but also some red wine personality. But just so very severe; even in an orange wine lineup this is furthest to left field. Can't imagine drinking this in a normal wine context, but I could see enjoying it in a similar vein to Isastegi Cidre: slightly chilled, on a hot summer evening.

2006 Paolo Bea "Santa Chiara" Umbria IGT
Frequently shifting aromas, at times floral and stone fruit, other tipes ripe mandarin and exotic spice. Nice rich mouthfeel, some caramel. Probably the most generous wine in the flight, but there's some really nice complexity here. Fascinating evolution in the glass as well.

2007 Monasterio Suore Cistercensi "Coenobium Rusticum" Lazio IGT
Very distinctive, borderline strange nose, and a generous palate and mouthfeel, but trickier for me than the Santa Chiara. Seemed to want more attention than I could spare, and as organizer I just didn't have enough time with each wine. I was charmed initially but then found more to like in the Lunar and Santa Chiara.

2005 Movia "Lunar" Gorika Brda
Somewhat cloudy. High acidity. Initially difficult, but man did this open up with time in the glass. Layers of flavors, and just great purity to the fruit. My favorite of the flight.

2008 Cowan Cellars Sauvignon Blanc Silver Pines Vineyard, Sonoma Mtn
Starbright, pale yellow in color. Not at all oxidative or in the orange vein. Pear skin, spice aromas. Very young and green-fruited. The skin contact shows here as a very slightly tactile, very subtle tannin effect on the palate. Shows potential, but for me this was too young and tight to really enjoy.

2008 Natural Process Alliance Chardonnay "Skin Fermented" Sonoma Coast
Almond, green and stone fruits, spice cake, bright acidity but with a touch of richness. Nice core of concentration and intensity. Just a faint hint of kombucha, barely above threshold for me. Tasty but even as one of the more restrained wines here, I wonder what you would eat with this?

Flight 2

2001 Gravner Ribolla Gialla "Anfora" Venezia Giulia IGT
Subtle, nuanced orange/apricot and dessert-like salted caramel aromatics. Subtle, tight palate, with classic marmalade and mandarin, saline and nicely textured. With time a slightly oxidized, creamy old wood component comes out, perhaps an indication of the 36 months this spends in cask. At room temperature there's slight warmth from alcohol; just a few degrees lower would take care of this. I liked this, but for me it was less focused than the Radikon or Vodopivec.

2003 Damijan "Kaplja" Venezia Giulia IGT
Distinctive slightly oxidized nose of rock candy, butterscotch, toasted coconut, pineapple. My thoughts alternately ran to a pia colada and to older Tondonia Blanco, though this is nowhere near as enjoyable. Rich and full-bodied palate with somewhat roasted flavors that follow the nose. Lacks some freshness, and seems to have some flavors derived from extended time - too much, perhaps - in wood.

2004 La Stoppa "Ageno" Emilia IGT
Dirty, awkward nose. Very, very spicy palate, quite tannic, with some apricot but really a lot of weird savory, phenolic elements. Band-aid, medicinal, and weird. The winemaker and importer present both thought this was off the charts with brett. I knew this had to be the Ageno given the tannins, and I've really enjoyed this wine in the past but this bottle was a disappointment. I shared another bottle with some folks a few nights later that was more enjoyable, but still very wild and far from clean.

2000 Zidarich Vitovska Carso DOC
Surprisingly, this isn't an orange wine at all; Zidarich must have started experimenting with extended skin contact sometime after 2000. Medium lemon yellow, slightly cloudy. Very odd, stinky nose with rancid coconut and butterscotch and coconut, not particularly attractive. Disjointed, tart palate. This was mostly ignored by the group as it didn't fit in at all.
Given how unimpressive this was I was very surprised how much I enjoyed the leftovers the following night. Still some butterscotch and rancid butter notes on the nose, but more tolerable. Slightly oxidized, nutty palate, with sharp acidity and good richness. It's a more successful, functioning wine tonight, one that reminds me of an Arbois chardonnay with just slight oxidation. Regardless, out of place in this tasting.

2002 Radikon Ribolla Gialla Venezia Giulia IGT
Very complex aromas of brine, orange marmalade, mineral, mint and other fresh herbs, almond. Great acidity and focus, with better freshness and purity than the wines preceding it in this flight. Good intensity in the mouth and length. Quite tactile and slightly tannic. This still needs time; the last glass the following night was very good. My wine of the flight.

2004 Vodopivec Vitovska Venezia Giulia IGT
Very nice. Marmalade, soft red fruit, green leaves. Fairly tight. I liked this a lot but really didn't spend enough time with it - once again as organizer, I was falling far behind.

The following night I had a glass of 2007 Cowan Cellars Syrah Drystack Vineyard Bennett Valley, which was quite delicious considering it had been open a day. Very fresh, with sweet juicy medium red fruits and hints of savory and herbal notes on the nose, as well as a paint or ink note. Not profound, but delicious and definitely something Otto would call very moreish. I'd love to drink this again.
 
Many thanks to Jim Cowan and Kevin Kelley for their generous donations of wine samples.

While I appreciated the opportunity to taste many of these alongside each other, I think the exercise was of somewhat limited utility. Given the dramatic evolution most of these wines exhibit over many hours, I simply don't think they are great candidates for this kind of comparative tasting.

A few of the wines really stood out for me, however, and I'd love to have the opportunity to drink them again - preferably alone next time: '02 Radikon Ribolla Gialla, '05 Movia Lunar, and '06 Paolo Bea Santa Chiara.

I really needed more time with the '07 Rusticum and '04 Vodopivec Vitovska. I found these difficult to assess, even with an hour plus per flight.

The '08 Cowan Cellars sauvignon blanc, '08 NPA chardonnay, and '00 Zidarich Vitovska may have been fermented on their skins but they were not orange, not in color nor style. This probably did them no favors in the context of an orange wine themed dinner and tasting; these wines would have been better-appreciated on their own. Live and learn.
 
Given the dramatic evolution most of these wines exhibit over many hours, I simply don't think they are great candidates for this kind of comparative tasting.
At least among the vocal respondents, I think we're achieving consensus on this point. I don't want to diminish the interesting-ness of the exercise, which was beyond considerable, but I think I'd prefer smaller, more focused studies.

Anyone with the opposite opinion want to weight in?
 
Back
Top