Zin-icism

[Florida Jim]

I went to a zinfandel tasting last night. More specifically, those zins. rated the best by the Wine Spectator this year. Such a tasting is a bit foreign to me; first, I do not receive nor have much interest in the Wine Spectator, and; second, I havent a single bottle of zinfandel in my cellar.
But the people that were gathering are a great group, the house where it was held is comfortable and the food was stellar.
I did not take down vintages or exact labels but the producers involved included Novy, Charlisle, Seghisio, Valdez, Chronicle, Four Vines, Lamborn Family, Turley, Sausal, Orin Swift and Linnae Colado (please, forgive me misspellings, I dont know many of these names and was writing them down phonetically.
No major revelations here I learned once again why I dont buy this grape and I learned once again that these wines are much too alcoholic for me. The best of the lot (for me) was the Four Vines and it turns out to be the least expensive wine in the line-up. I wasnt surprised.

After the tasting finished, a magnum of 2000 Harlan Estate, Cabernet Sauvignon was opened. A thousand dollar plus bottle at retail, heaven knows what it sells for at auction.
It was very oaky, monolithic, tannic, short and had a very small amount of VA. There was nothing about it I liked but, considering the vintage, it was probably not the best bottle of Harlan to open for immediate consumption.

It struck me that had we sold the magnum we could have paid for the tasting several times over.
Or, we could have sold the lot and found something really good to buy in quantity.
Sigh . . .

Best, Jim

 

[Dan McQ]

originally posted by Florida Jim:
Zin-icism

It struck me that had we sold the magnum we could have paid for the tasting several times over.
Or, we could have sold the lot and found something really good to buy in quantity.
Sigh . . .

Best, Jim

Ah, the mlawton business model.

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Florida Jim:
Zin-icism
I went to a zinfandel tasting last night. More specifically, those zins rated the best by the Wine Spectator this year...No major revelations here I learned once again why I dont buy this grape and I learned once again that these wines are much too alcoholic for me.

Given what I know of your taste in wine from your postings, sentence #2 would lead inevitably to the conclusion in sentence #3. I suspect if the tasting had been Zins rated under 90 by the Spectator, you would have enjoyed them better. Or if Zins from Nalle, Quivira, Boeger, Pedroncelli, Scott Harvey, etc.

 

[Peter Creasey]

originally posted by Florida Jim: Zin-icismI learned once again why I dont buy this grape and I learned once again that these wines are much too alcoholic for me.

Jim, Unfortunate for you!

I love Zins that are in balance and find them to be quite versatile when matching up with food. I have quite a few in my cellar.

I'm not that familiar with several that you tasted. It is surprising that anyone would have a Zin tasting without a Draper (Ridge) Zin.

. . . . . . . Pete

 

[Cory Cartwright]

Sounds awful. I hope you drank something suitably teeth stripping to cleanse your palate afterwards.

 

[lars makie]

That Seghesio Sonoma County that got high praise from the Spectator that everybody (not here) was getting their panties all in a bunch over was thee worst thing I've had all year. Couldn't finish a glass. Bleh.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

One should not forget that WS is a lifestyle magazine, not a wine magazine.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

I'm not that familiar with several that you tasted. It is surprising that anyone would have a Zin tasting without a Draper (Ridge) Zin.

Pete,
I'm sure that Jim has had any number of Ridge "Zins," but his aversion to new oak may make all but the most aged of them fairly hard to accept. I'm finding more and more that I need a minimum of 10 years on a Geyserville or Lytton Springs to be able to get past the "Draper perfume" these days... and I think that Jim's more quercophobic than even I am.

Mark Lipton

 

[Lou Kessler]

My wife cooks some racks of ribs that through many years of experimenting with nothing goes as well with as a "good" Zin. I know the economy is tough but your type of deprivation is above and beyond the call.

 

[Peter Creasey]

originally posted by Lou Kessler: Ribs I know the economy is tough but your type of deprivation is above and beyond the call.

Lou, If only I were clever enough to have worded my reply to Jim as well as you have.

Well said!

. . . . . . . Pete

 

[Lou Kessler]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

I'm not that familiar with several that you tasted. It is surprising that anyone would have a Zin tasting without a Draper (Ridge) Zin.

Pete,
I'm sure that Jim has had any number of Ridge "Zins," but his aversion to new oak may make all but the most aged of them fairly hard to accept. I'm finding more and more that I need a minimum of 10 years on a Geyserville or Lytton Springs to be able to get past the "Draper perfume" these days... and I think that Jim's more quercophobic than even I am.

Mark Lipton

A derogatory remark about "Draper perfume" if I were you I would stay out of the Detroit area. I'm sure by tomorrow there will be a contract out on you.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Lou Kessler:

A derogatory remark about "Draper perfume" if I were you I would stay out of the Detroit area. I'm sure by tomorrow there will be a contract out on you.

Since you signed this with the secret U-U hand signal, Lou, I know you're on the up and up. The good news is that I've managed to stay out of Detroit for the first 50 years of my life, so maybe I can manage the same trick for the next 50...

Mark Lipton

 

[Florida Jim]

"quercophobic"

The stuff one learns here.
Best, Jim

 

[Asher]

Here's what I wrote after a trip to Sonoma this past June. I was as disappointed as Jim, although for different reasons. Jim's gripe seems to be about alcohol levels. Mine was more about the oak and lack of Zin typicity, or Zinicity, perhaps Zypicity. I also concur with Mark Lipton's comments on the oakiness of Ridge Zins.

Where is the Good Zin?

Much as we sought out small production, high quality Pinots and Syrah, we also looked for Zinfandel in the same mold, and were generally disappointed. We tasted at Rafanelli, Ridge, Nalle and Unti. Perhaps we were mistaken in only visiting producers in the Dry Creek valley (although its been my experience that Dry Creek Zins delivered, in the past, the qualities that I look for.) The wines we tasted, mostly from 07, showed decent but simple fruit, creamy oaky textures and not enough structure for my palate. We kept searching for the pepper/underbrush/briary notes that makes Zin unique, but in general, the oak treatment obscured whatever such qualities existed. So much for old vines and low yields. We did drink some Dashe at a wine bar, which was better than the others listed above, but did not wow us.

Ridge, in particular, was disappointing. I think that "Draper Perfume" is really a disguised term for "excessive coconut-caramel oak". The oak treatment was overwhelming, whether in the Geyserville or Lytton or other Zin or Syrah, and dominated each of these wines to the extent that the oak obscured any varietal typicity. I have a high regard for Ridges history and accomplishments, but I no longer enjoy their wines.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Asher:

Ridge, in particular, was disappointing. I think that "Draper Perfume" is really a disguised term for "excessive coconut-caramel oak". The oak treatment was overwhelming, whether in the Geyserville or Lytton or other Zin or Syrah, and dominated each of these wines to the extent that the oak obscured any varietal typicity. I have a high regard for Ridges history and accomplishments, but I no longer enjoy their wines.

Asher, have you much experience with drinking Ridge Zins soon after release? In my case, I am unsure whether the wines have changed as much as my tastes have, and what gives me hope is my past experience with aged examples of both Geyserville and LS which can be sublime. Unlike the wines of many other Johnny-come-latelys, Ridge IMO has a proven track record of making wines whose oak does integrate over time and which have the structure for the long haul. What would worry me far more than your report of the oakiness would be a softness or lack of structure that suggests a problem with extensive bottle aging.

Mark Lipton

 

[Asher]

originally posted by MLipton:

Asher, have you much experience with drinking Ridge Zins soon after release?
Mark Lipton

Yes, from around the '95 vintage onward. I've tasted Ridge Zins old and young.

originally posted by MLipton:

In my case, I am unsure whether the wines have changed as much as my tastes have

Agree again. I am a lot more oak-averse now. I recall that I was blown away by the '97 Geyserville on release. Now, I suspect I would not be.

originally posted by MLipton:

. . . what gives me hope is my past experience with aged examples of both Geyserville and LS which can be sublime. Unlike the wines of many other Johnny-come-latelys, Ridge IMO has a proven track record of making wines whose oak does integrate over time and which have the structure for the long haul.

Here I think we disagree. I stopped buying Ridge Zins with the '99 vintage, but I continued to open the ones remaining in my cellar. They have all been, pretty much, oaky to my taste. The oak may have been toned down, i.e., not as coconut/caramel, but still oaky.

It's been suggested to me that the young Ridge wines that I tasted and bashed this summer need time to integrate. What's interesting is that the same wines are promoted (even on their labels, as I recall) as being drinkable young. Maybe then, for my palate, I need to find a middle ground. Clearly, I don't like them young. And when old, Ridge Zins are said to be "claret-like". If that's the case, I'll open a claret. But even in the middle ground that I seek, I find the oak excessive.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

Try Swan.

 

[Lou Kessler]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Try Swan.

Oakier IMHO but I'm still fond of most Ridges with some time on them.

 

[Peter Creasey]

originally posted by Asher: Where is the Good Zin?

Asher, Some of the ones I've liked recently are the following:

Dashe Dry Crk Val '07
Hendry Napa Primitivo Block 24 '06
Quivira Dry Crk Val '05
Ravenswood Big River Alex Val '05
Ridge Pagani Ranch '05 and '06
Ridge Geyserville '06 (to the extent that it is a Zin)
Rosenblum Redwood Val Annete's Reserve '04
Seghesio Sonoma '06
Summers Napa Villa Andriana Vyd '06

There are others I can't think of right now.

. . . . . Pete

 

[SFJoe]

I think the Ridge wines are incrementally oakier than they used to be, with a rough progression through the '90s. Not a seismic shift, but a little here and a little there. Couple that with palate evolution and the wines are much less appealing to me than they used to be.