TN: Dinner with the fellahs: Muscadet, Vouvray, Cornas, St. Joseph and Primitivo

[slaton]

Are we talking about the weather, the wines, or both?

I've talked to a number of Italian vignaioli who described 2003 as the hottest summer of the last hundred years. It certainly cooked all the wines on the shelves of shops in a couple of towns I visited afterward. I've also tasted my share of disappointingly atypical 2003 Italian reds with that dreadful combination of overripe fruit and underripe tannins.

Speaking more specifically of the north, yes I do think there are probably more successful wines from 2003, from better producers, though I've tasted many I dislike. But I've certainly done a bit better with Piedmont and Friuli than Tuscany, Umbria, or the Veneto.

For me personally, with southern whites it's almost a complete washout, and for many reds as well. Although again there are successes here and there. Even Mt Etna for me has been completely mixed.

 

[Levi Dalton]

originally posted by slaton:

For me personally, with southern whites it's almost a complete washout, and for many reds as well. Although again there are successes here and there. Even Mt Etna for me has been completely mixed.

Checked in with Benanti Pietramarina lately?

 

[slaton]

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Checked in with Benanti Pietramarina lately?

Ah, I was hoping you'd turn up.

I don't recall the 2003 ever appearing up on local shelves, and I don't remember tasting it at Tre Bicchieri.

It is certainly possible that at the time I turned my nose up at it due to the vintage.

But Pietramarina nowadays is perhaps my favorite Italian white, so I'd love the opportunity to try it.

Every bottle of the 2001 seems to be more wonderful than the last, the most recent being at a jeebus earlier this week.

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by Brad Kane:
I'm not a fan of '03 Barolo. I find the fruit a little too ripe and the tannins a bit too green.

I do like '03 Barbera, though.

It's a great year for Barbera. By no means do I endorse it as a top Nebbiolo year, although I thought the Giacosas that I have tasted to be quite good, and a few others as well; you are right that there is a substantial number of green Nebbioli, too. But compared to results from much of France (although I thought Loire reds quite good for the extreme conditions, and some Burgundies escaped the heat profile), very positive in Barolo, even if I have no interest in buying at any price. Certainly the Baroli are nothing like the Chave Hermitage, for which some of us are thankful.

 

[Lou Kessler]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Certainly the Baroli are nothing like the Chave Hermitage, for which some of us are thankful.

I agree but I'll have to get a night job to afford Chave even at wholesale prices.

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by slaton:
Are we talking about the weather, the wines, or both?

I've talked to a number of Italian vignaioli who described 2003 as the hottest summer of the last hundred years. It certainly cooked all the wines on the shelves of shops in a couple of towns I visited afterward. I've also tasted my share of disappointingly atypical 2003 Italian reds with that dreadful combination of overripe fruit and underripe tannins.

Speaking more specifically of the north, yes I do think there are probably more successful wines from 2003, from better producers, though I've tasted many I dislike. But I've certainly done a bit better with Piedmont and Friuli than Tuscany, Umbria, or the Veneto.

For me personally, with southern whites it's almost a complete washout, and for many reds as well. Although again there are successes here and there. Even Mt Etna for me has been completely mixed.

I'm talking about both weather and wines, I guess, although I have no first hand experience with the weather, just rely on what people told me -- hot, but not as hot as in most of France, Germany, UK, etc. Moreover, I'm speaking of Piedmont only; thinking harder about it, I have little or no experience, depending on the region, with 2003 other Italian wines.

 

[Levi Dalton]

originally posted by slaton:

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Checked in with Benanti Pietramarina lately?

Ah, I was hoping you'd turn up.

I don't recall the 2003 ever appearing up on local shelves, and I don't remember tasting it at Tre Bicchieri.

It is certainly possible that at the time I turned my nose up at it due to the vintage.

But Pietramarina nowadays is perhaps my favorite Italian white, so I'd love the opportunity to try it.

Every bottle of the 2001 seems to be more wonderful than the last, the most recent being at a jeebus earlier this week.

I like the '03 Pietramarina quite a bit, is why I mention it. I am often at a restaurant that has a bunch of it. The last Tre Bicchieri tasting I attended offered the '04 Pietramarina, which needs several years, I think.

Pietramarina is in fact my favorite Italian white, as of this writing, and noting of course that white is not orange. For me the Pietramarina '03 is The Third Man of the wine world. Thought by most not to exist, it is in fact a suave blend of complexity, nuance, ageability, white color, shadowy origins, and mysterious importing. In a vinopolis where the Great White Vienna of our time is divided into the "White Burgundy Zone", the "Loire Chenin Zone", the "German Riesling Zone", not to mention the "Austrian Sector" itself, it is nice to know that there is a nebulous underworld called Southern Italy, from which on occaision there emerges from the darkness the articulate and well-groomed presence, to be searched out by those who Cotton to it.

I did a Sicilian wine and cheese course at Murray's recently. We opened de Bartoli "Grappoli" Grillo, Gulfi "Carjcanti", and Benanti "Pietramarina", amongst others. The crowd favorite - by far - was the "Carjcanti" amongst the whites. Which goes to show, you never can tell.

Every bottle of '01 Pietramarina I have opened (12, I think, perhaps more) has been corked.

 

[slaton]

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
The last Tre Bicchieri tasting I attended offered the '04 Pietramarina, which needs several years, I think.

Had the same conclusion - quite boisterous and still showing a bit too much wood. But I bought some anyway after it was closed out here.

Pietramarina is in fact my favorite Italian white, as of this writing

fist-bump

In a vinopolis where the Great White Vienna of our time is divided into the "White Burgundy Zone", the "Loire Chenin Zone", the "German Riesling Zone", not to mention the "Austrian Sector" itself, it is nice to know that there is a nebulous underworld called Southern Italy, from which on occaision there emerges from the darkness the articulate and well-groomed presence, to be searched out by those who Cotton to it.

I'm with you.

But... for me, no others have come even close to Pietramarina. I do like some Campania and other Sicily whites a fair bit though. I.e. I've dug the aforementioned Gulfi Carjcanti before. Marisa Cuomo can be good but her top stuff is as expensive as Pietramarina. Mastroberardino's Radici FdA is sometimes good. I've still not tried the Biondi Gurna that Oliver brings in, but the falanghina from La Sibilla is nice.

Gambero Rosso loves Feudi di San Gregorio's high end whites but they usually seem like a bit too much to me.

Every bottle of '01 Pietramarina I have opened (12, I think, perhaps more) has been corked.

Tragic - not to mention weird. It's a special wine. I've so far have escaped the anisolic plague - have just two bottles left of six. I'll open one for you if you ever make it out west.

 

[Levi Dalton]

Cuomo is plaster of paris to Benanti's white marble.

Perhaps you know of Pietracupa, and Guido Marsella. Maybe some Le Cigliate has made it's way to you. Maybe you enjoy some Vestini Campagnano Pallagrello Bianco (the unoaked one) from time to time. Or De Bartoli's Grillo. Maybe you have had some surprising leads from Sardegna, or (back in the Campania) find yourself drinking Ischia Bianco.

But then I can't go too far down this road, as wines have a way of disappearing in the New York market after mentions sometimes, and that doesn't, you know, really help me out.

At the last Tre Bic I only saw one offering from Feudi di San Gregorio on offer - the sparkling wine that led to the massive rift among the brothers a few years back. No late harvest Fiano. No Serpico.

I took that to be an encouraging sign.

 

[drssouth]

originally posted by Joe Dressner:
That's plain ridiculous Brad. Cappellano was not an extreme winemaker, but a truly traditional winemaker. He didn't have the benefit of Cottarello and other consultants to tame his Barolo.

Guattarolo is extreme, working in low sulfur or no sulfur, with amphora bottlings. After you let that air out, you enjoyed the wine.

I don't expect you to like all our wines. That's fine. But please present an informed opinion.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Levi Dalton]

originally posted by Asher:
For the Cappellano fans on this thread, today Crush sent an e-mail re: the 2003 Barolo Pie Rupestris, under $50. Of course, it's an '03....

I had this recently, and I found it much more to more liking on a Day 2 revisit than after the pop and pour treatment.

I think it is a wine that needs some considerable cellar time. The opposite of the '03 Monprivato, say.