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[MLipton]

originally posted by Lou Kessler:

I see Cathy Corison at the chamber music programs on a regular basis but they don't operate during the summer. Do you know for sure where she's getting her fruit from?

What I was told at the winery was that their vineyards are all close to the winery facility, i.e. on the valley floor, hence why I said "though" in the following sentence. I can't think of another producer with vines on the valley floor whose wines I like as much as hers. Caymus in the day made good wine from there, and Mondavi, too.

I don't due wine critiques pertaining to the valley but take my word for it all cabs from MT Veeder, Howell Mt, other hillside locations are not created equal.
That also goes for wine from the valley floor.

True, Lou. I certainly don't like all Mt. Veeder or Howell Mtn Cabs or even a majority thereof. But the percentages are even lower on the valley floor, Ms. Corison's wines notwithstanding.

Mark Lipton

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

...
I don't due wine critiques pertaining to the valley but take my word for it all cabs from MT Veeder, Howell Mt, other hillside locations are not created equal.
That also goes for wine from the valley floor.

So true. A soil map of Napa Valley is a crazy patchwork quilt, laid on top of a variety of exposures. Hard to generalize - even on the valley floor there are high quality, well-drained rock soils and others that are practically mud.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
In the first years of ESJ, in my search for old plantings of Mourvedre...

I don't know where these pictures were taken but they are purty.

 

[Steve Edmunds]

Oakley/Antioch area... pure sand, and definitely a California look to the thing

 

[Bruce G.]

The flickr pics are tagged with the name "Gonzalves".
There used to be a family of that name farming a beautiful old "mixed black" vineyard out by Brentwood, though I think it was re-planted to tract housing and a Trader Joe's a few years back.

 

[Bruce G.]

California wines taste that way because people want them to taste that way. The winemakers, the winery owners, the consumers, the critics, the banks.... everyone wants them to taste that way.
Opening up a bottle of Overnoy Poulsard or a Dard et Ribo red for a bunch of California winemakers, or suggesting that Napa would do better to t-bud over to Aglianico just gets laughs from the assembled.

Real change, if it's going to happen, will happen very slowly, at the edges.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):

You say "don't trash them for being what they are" yet CA is replete with winemakers who don't believe in letting the wines be what they are (hence the proliferation of cones, chips, micro-ox, "sweet spot" titration, gm yeasts, and on and on).

California-bashers here and elsewhere are constantly conflating two separate issues - post-harvest manipulation and soft-tannin/high pH/alcoholic gobbiness. Van Williamson at Edmeades is a purist at letting the wines "be what they are", but given his vineyards and viticultural choices he makes some natural wines that many people on this board would hate.

This is part of the whole "physiological maturity" boondoggle. It seems to me that gobbiness is actually a choice, as you've pointed out above. I don't care if a wine is natural or not, if it is gobby, I have no interest. There are a lot of bad viticultural and oenological choices that get made which lead to the vast majority of wine from CA to be very disappointing to me and unfit for my table.

 

[MarkS]

This is part of the whole "physiological maturity" boondoggle. It seems to me that gobbiness is actually a choice, as you've pointed out above. I don't care if a wine is natural or not, if it is gobby, I have no interest.

Where is Brian Loring to convince you otherwise of your misconceptions, son??

 

[Steve Edmunds]

originally posted by Bruce G.:
California wines taste that way because people want them to taste that way. The winemakers, the winery owners, the consumers, the critics, the banks.... everyone wants them to taste that way.
Opening up a bottle of Overnoy Poulsard or a Dard et Ribo red for a bunch of California winemakers, or suggesting that Napa would do better to t-bud over to Aglianico just gets laughs from the assembled.

Real change, if it's going to happen, will happen very slowly, at the edges.

No wonder I get edgy!

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Bruce G.:
The flickr pics are tagged with the name "Gonzalves".
There used to be a family of that name farming a beautiful old "mixed black" vineyard out by Brentwood, though I think it was re-planted to tract housing and a Trader Joe's a few years back.

We got some tasty Mourvedre and Zin grapes from that vineyard back in the 90s - not very deep but a nice baked herbal character to them. It'd be a shame if they've been ripped out.