Staff Tasting

J

jack hott

Jack Hott
Benanti, Biancodicaselle, Etna Bianco 2006: Clean and higher-toned. Hints of richness through the mid-palate, but nicely focused through the finish. Finishes with some chalky mineral notes and a nice acidity that lingers. Members of the group felt this resembled a Pinot grigio, but with less fruit.

Inama, "Foscarnio" Soave Classico 2006: I thought this was oxidized, but on one else did, so I let it stand. Rich, full bodied, with notes of sweet almonds on the mid-palate. Nice long finish and a brisk acidity. In the past I'd found this to be much rounder and oaky, but this example showed almost no barrel flavor.

D. Ventura "Vio do Burato" Ribeira Sacra 2007: This was the disappointment of the three. The first bottle was so reductive we went ahead and opened a second one. The second bottle was better, but still very reductive on the nose and palate. It took a few hours for everything to blow off and settle down. Once it had sufficient air the wine showed sweet red fruits in the nose and pipe tobacco. Clean on the palate, with a great pinot-like weight and fine tannins. Really a very pretty wine. I just worry I may lose some people on this, as it seemed so reduced when popped and poured.

So a question for those in the restaurant industry regarding reductive wines. Since customers (and staff) often form their impressions of the wine on their first taste, how much success have you had with wines that require time/decanting? The Burato is priced to be a everyday wine, and perhaps requiring an extra step may turn people off. Thoughts?
 
Weird.

We made quick work of a pound of burrata, with tomatoes and olive oil and a sour dough baguette last night.

Washed it down with the 07 Inama Soave Classico also. The basic, not the Foscarino. This had no oak, and was minerally and refreshing at 12.5% alcohol.
Good match with the burrata.
 
originally posted by jack hott:

So a question for those in the restaurant industry regarding reductive wines. Since customers (and staff) often form their impressions of the wine on their first taste, how much success have you had with wines that require time/decanting? The Burato is priced to be a everyday wine, and perhaps requiring an extra step may turn people off. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I just try to be upfront with the customer about the situation. I tell them that the wine needs some time to come around before they order it, so that I can put it in a context for them (that the wine might be better opened now but served after a bottle of something else, or after cocktails). This actually came up tonight at a table with a wine from Foti. I think that if you describe 8 different wines on a list for someone, and you explicity say that one of them needs some time as it is a bit reductive, there isn't really any room for misunderstanding. The situation tonight went fine because the customer agreed after the wine was poured that the before sale characterization of the wine had been correct. The same customer also felt that the wine worked well with the food, more so than as a stand alone beverage, which is something to consider.

Someone I respect a lot told me not so long ago that he didn't believe seriously reductive wines would ever shed that trait in the cellar with bottle age. I find that opinion somewhat hard to agree with. For instance, I think that the Gulfi "Carjcante" 2006 has fleshed out and become less noticeably reductive than it was a year ago. Same situation with the Vio Giobatta "U Bastio" Rossese 2007. These are two wines that I am very familiar with, from multiple tastings and numerous bottles. In both cases I think a fairly short amount of time in the cellar (a year or so) has changed the picture. So from my experience, keeping the wine in the cellar for a bit can alleviate the problem to some extent.
 
D. Ventura "Vio do Burato" Ribeira Sacra 2007: This was the disappointment of the three. The first bottle was so reductive we went ahead and opened a second one. The second bottle was better, but still very reductive on the nose and palate. It took a few hours for everything to blow off and settle down. Once it had sufficient air the wine showed sweet red fruits in the nose and pipe tobacco. Clean on the palate, with a great pinot-like weight and fine tannins. Really a very pretty wine. I just worry I may lose some people on this, as it seemed so reduced when popped and poured.

So a question for those in the restaurant industry regarding reductive wines. Since customers (and staff) often form their impressions of the wine on their first taste, how much success have you had with wines that require time/decanting? The Burato is priced to be a everyday wine, and perhaps requiring an extra step may turn people off. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I cannot really answer to the restaurant trade question, since I am not in the bidness, ans also seldom purchase full bottles of wine when dining out. But an observation leads to a question...

Do you or anyone else feel mencia endears a more reductive stance? Almost all of the mencias I've had (admittedly few, but at least half a dozen) have had a noticeable reductive streak, sometimes slight, sometimes more, that I wonder is a characteristic of the grape?
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
For instance, I think that the Gulfi "Carjcante" 2006 has fleshed out and become less noticeably reductive than it was a year ago. Same situation with the Vio Giobatta "U Bastio" Rossese 2007.
Click to expand...

Are you sure it was reduction with these two wines?
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
For instance, I think that the Gulfi "Carjcante" 2006 has fleshed out and become less noticeably reductive than it was a year ago. Same situation with the Vio Giobatta "U Bastio" Rossese 2007.
Click to expand...

Are you sure it was reduction with these two wines?
Click to expand...

Yes, I am.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
For instance, I think that the Gulfi "Carjcante" 2006 has fleshed out and become less noticeably reductive than it was a year ago. Same situation with the Vio Giobatta "U Bastio" Rossese 2007.
Click to expand...

Are you sure it was reduction with these two wines?
Click to expand...

Yes, I am.
Click to expand...

Were they somewhat autolytic?
 
Do you or anyone else feel mencia endears a more reductive stance? Almost all of the mencias I've had (admittedly few, but at least half a dozen) have had a noticeable reductive streak, sometimes slight, sometimes more, that I wonder is a characteristic of the grape?
Click to expand...

I'm starting to to think mencia does tend toward reduction. I've noted it in other D. Ventura bottlings, as well as in Alodio bottlings. I'm not sure if this is the grape, or the state of Galician winemaking. The wines tend toward the light and fresh side of the scale, and I understand one way to keep things there is to employ reductive methods.

Levi, I have also heard that bottle age can reduce the level of reduction. A local winemaker I spoke to talked about this at length.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:

Someone I respect a lot told me not so long ago that he didn't believe seriously reductive wines would ever shed that trait in the cellar with bottle age. I find that opinion somewhat hard to agree with.
Click to expand...

That runs contrary to accepted wisdom, does it not? I have read that wines in decently sealed bottles get increasingly reductive with time. This again returns to the thorny question of oxygen ingress in cork-sealed bottles, but in the absence of oxygen ingress, there's really no option but for the wine to get more reductive.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:

Someone I respect a lot told me not so long ago that he didn't believe seriously reductive wines would ever shed that trait in the cellar with bottle age. I find that opinion somewhat hard to agree with.
Click to expand...

That runs contrary to accepted wisdom, does it not? I have read that wines in decently sealed bottles get increasingly reductive with time. This again returns to the thorny question of oxygen ingress in cork-sealed bottles, but in the absence of oxygen ingress, there's really no option but for the wine to get more reductive.

Mark Lipton
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but then there is the matter of how actual wines are drinking.
 
That runs contrary to accepted wisdom, does it not? I have read that wines in decently sealed bottles get increasingly reductive with time. This again returns to the thorny question of oxygen ingress in cork-sealed bottles, but in the absence of oxygen ingress, there's really no option but for the wine to get more reductive.

Mark Lipton
Click to expand...

I thought reductivity occurred during fermentation. The yeast, starved of nitrogen begins to use other amino acid compounds and as a result produces hydrogen sulfide. Once fermentation is over, the presence of alcohol further exacerbates the issue. After the wine has been bottled, there should be no further fermentation, and thus no further production of sulfides.

It does seem that some sulfides could bond with non-volatile compounds and be undetectable. Through time these bonds could degrade leading to "more" reduction, or at least stronger reductive odors. My understanding is this arises during aging on lees and in barrel, but not in bottle.

I haven't aged any wine I found to be reduced while young, but I will, now that my curiosity is piqued.
 
originally posted by jack hott:

I thought reductivity occurred during fermentation. The yeast, starved of nitrogen begins to use other amino acid compounds and as a result produces hydrogen sulfide. Once fermentation is over, the presence of alcohol further exacerbates the issue. After the wine has been bottled, there should be no further fermentation, and thus no further production of sulfides.
Click to expand...

Reductivity certainly can and does occur during fermentation*, but that's not the only route. Sulfides do get produced in the bottle and many of the prized "tertiary" aromas of wine are due to the presence of certain sulfides. The sulfites used to preserve wine can in time be reduced down to form thiols and, down the road, sulfides.

* and increasingly does as some winemakers shy away from racking
 
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