Mid-90s CFE is a pretty broad range of wines and styles. I might agree with you on 1997. Last 1996 I had was painful. Not sure if 1998 is "mid", but maybe I'll try one sometime. I haven't opened one in a while, it seemed less hostile on release than the 1996. 1993, 1994 - no way. 1995 - maybe.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
The Fuss: Sancerre and Alsace
- Thread starter Filippo Mattia Ginanni
- Start date
originally posted by Thor:
All of them? I can't agree with that. '94, yes. Maybe one or two others. But not '96, for sure. '95 isn't where I want it. I've always been low on early-90s CFEs, but I'm certainly in no hurry to drink the '90s I have left.Well, I think it is perfectly OK to be drinking your mid-90s CFE right now.
All I really have left is 95-96-97.
I quite like where the 1995 is, but probably won't get around to another for a bit. The 1997 can go now.
As for the 1996, didn't you say it was pre-moxed?
Cult flipper!Why I sold my Donnhoff, couldn't deal with the lactic thing.
Made a pretty penny, I did.
originally posted by mlawton:
Mid-90s CFE is a pretty broad range of wines and styles. I might agree with you on 1997. Last 1996 I had was painful. Not sure if 1998 is "mid", but maybe I'll try one sometime. I haven't opened one in a while, it seemed less hostile on release than the 1996. 1993, 1994 - no way. 1995 - maybe.
Fair enough. We agree on 1995-96-97. You and Thor have more experience, so I'll defer to you on those other vintages.
Just don't let them get too old.
Uh, no.As for the 1996, didn't you say it was pre-moxed?
'99 wasn't exactly a great vintage. The '98s are undrinkably tight, and I'm holding a lot of that one. '97s have been drinkable since release. '96, '95 I wouldn't drink. I guess Mike and I disagree on '94. '93 no (despite a suboptimal performance from the last bottle I tasted, which wasn't mine), '92 I haven't had for a long while, so should probably check back in. And then we're back to '90.
originally posted by SFJoe:
Picking early is just spoofing in the vineyard.
Or so I've heard.
Let the grapes breathe free!
Movia Lunar is the only unspoofed wine.
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Agree with thor that the '98 is way to closed to give drinking pleasure. The '96s (from Alsace & Germany) have been such a crap shoot in terms of their overall balance that I have pretty much given up. I just dislike the vintage 90% of the time.
As for the extended aging, I agree with VLM that extended aging can be a bit overdone. What is the perfect expression of CFE or Boxler's Sommerberg? More often than not when someone opens a bottle of wine that is supposed to be in that mystical right place it's either closed as hell or shot to hell.
As for the extended aging, I agree with VLM that extended aging can be a bit overdone. What is the perfect expression of CFE or Boxler's Sommerberg? More often than not when someone opens a bottle of wine that is supposed to be in that mystical right place it's either closed as hell or shot to hell.
Salil Benegal
Salil Benegal
Hirtzberger and Nikolaihof are bloody expensive, but it's still possible to get Knoll and Prager Smaragd at more reasonable prices (I know HDH has a bunch of 04s, 06s and 07s in the $30-40 range).originally posted by David M. Bueker:
I'm not sure how one can complain about pricing (i.e. Boxler Sommerberg at $50) then talk about Hirtzberger, Knoll and Nikolaihof.
I drink a lot of Riesling from Austria, but it's no longer a region for hunting QPR. The days of Steiner Hund for under $30 have long gone. In fact most of the top Austrian Rieslings cost the same or more than CFE in my market.
And there are a lot of other producers in Austria (particularly in the Theise portfolio) making really good wine at competitive prices. Hirsch is making some awesome stuff (07 Heiligenstein Riesling and GV are stunning), and there's also some great value from Schrock, Lehrner, Stadlmann. I'm also quite intrigued by some of the reds coming out... had a Lehrner Blaufrankisch (sp?) recently for about $17 that was really tasty - maybe along the lines of a lighter Pinot or really good Gamay, and am keen on exploring more of those in the future.
Cheers,
Salil
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
The '96s (from Alsace & Germany) have been such a crap shoot in terms of their overall balance that I have pretty much given up. I just dislike the vintage 90% of the time.
By given up do you mean that you have drunk them all/gotten rid of them? Or you have stopped opening them and will wait for Future Magic?
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
Thor,
At around 25, there is an orgy of top level Auslese...
I'm still wondering where you are buying your wine? Are these in bond prices?
When I'm in London I usually see top-level spatlese at the 20-30 level.
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Rashaan,
wine-searcher is there for you. You can have Schaefer Himmerlreich 2005 at 138 IB for 12 bottles. That's ~ 14/bottle (assuming VAT @ 15 and Duty of 12). To me that's a top level spat. Granted, that's no Domprbst or Wehlener or Praelat or Juffer Sonnenuhr but...
JJ Prum 2008 Auslese Himmelreich, en primeur is 22 and the Wehlen is 4 quid more (also VAT + Duty included). And these prices are driven mainly by the 25%+ appreciation of the EUR vis-a-vis the good ol' pound. You can find Keller's GG below 30 (not true for the top ones).
Plus there is a plethora of MSR wines from so called minor vintges (2002, 2004 and, yes, 2003) that offer plenty of value... Of course, IMVVVHO, there are folks out there with the wrong prices: Egon Muller at low praedikat (especially in the 2007 vintage), Van Voxlem (do not like the wines, personal taste)...
wine-searcher is there for you. You can have Schaefer Himmerlreich 2005 at 138 IB for 12 bottles. That's ~ 14/bottle (assuming VAT @ 15 and Duty of 12). To me that's a top level spat. Granted, that's no Domprbst or Wehlener or Praelat or Juffer Sonnenuhr but...
JJ Prum 2008 Auslese Himmelreich, en primeur is 22 and the Wehlen is 4 quid more (also VAT + Duty included). And these prices are driven mainly by the 25%+ appreciation of the EUR vis-a-vis the good ol' pound. You can find Keller's GG below 30 (not true for the top ones).
Plus there is a plethora of MSR wines from so called minor vintges (2002, 2004 and, yes, 2003) that offer plenty of value... Of course, IMVVVHO, there are folks out there with the wrong prices: Egon Muller at low praedikat (especially in the 2007 vintage), Van Voxlem (do not like the wines, personal taste)...
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
The '96s (from Alsace & Germany) have been such a crap shoot in terms of their overall balance that I have pretty much given up. I just dislike the vintage 90% of the time.
By given up do you mean that you have drunk them all/gotten rid of them? Or you have stopped opening them and will wait for Future Magic?
I rarely open them as I have no confidence in an enjayable experience.
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
Rashaan,
wine-searcher is there for you.
Yes, I meant to add that I mainly go to high street shops, which are more expensive. So the prices come down when you go to Howard Ripley and the like. But one thing I always found annoying with them is that you have to buy full cases. For some wines it is not a problem but overall it seems very limiting in the amount of wine you can explore.
And under those circumstances if I were in your shoes/palate I would definitely not be buying full cases of Alsatian riesling.
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
The '96s (from Alsace & Germany) have been such a crap shoot in terms of their overall balance that I have pretty much given up. I just dislike the vintage 90% of the time.
By given up do you mean that you have drunk them all/gotten rid of them? Or you have stopped opening them and will wait for Future Magic?
I rarely open them as I have no confidence in an enjayable experience.
I've always enjoyed the aggressive minerality of the vintage and the laser-intense acids.
Would you trade 1996s for 2002 Donnhoffs?
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
Rashaan,
wine-searcher is there for you.
Yes, I meant to add that I mainly go to high street shops, which are more expensive. So the prices come down when you go to Howard Ripley and the like. But one thing I always found annoying with them is that you have to buy full cases. For some wines it is not a problem but overall it seems very limiting in the amount of wine you can explore.
And under those circumstances if I were in your shoes/palate I would definitely not be buying full cases of Alsatian riesling.
I tend to go to VDP tastings, auctions in September and sample from friends. Then buy 6 and 12 packs. Wanna keep sharp and simple with the producers I like. I cannot afford both in terms of money and time an overly granular cellar... Then you have Wine Society... And at Howard Ripley you used to be able to pick even single bottles, then Outside World discovered Germany and Burgundy (well Burgundy became a lot of less of a conundrum in this decade to a lot of people including myself) and Sebastian changed the policy... But you are left with Vinetrail (not for Germans) when you crave a little bit of everything...
And only 4 bottles of Alsatian stuff in my cellar all Zind: a couple of Clos Windsbuhl and a couple of SGN... Mostly presents from friends...
Let me know whan you are this side of the pond (I assume you are US based now or maybe I am once again wrong!)
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
Then buy 6 and 12 packs. Wanna keep sharp and simple with the producers I like. I cannot afford both in terms of money and time an overly granular cellar...
It's a fine strategy. And one that makes a lot of sense.
I just get frustrated in the UK because it seems like your strategy is the only one that really makes sense and people with different perspectives get financially punished. So there are limited options for behavior compared to other wine markets.
For what it's worth, my own drinking/buying is pretty focused on a few areas/producers. Although these days I tend to buy 2-6 bottles of a specific wine.