Monier St. Joseph

I buy (and visit) Gripa every year. Not oaky - but not forward either. This is syrah that demands some time in bottle. 2004 is coming around now.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
tunnelI've liked du tunnel recently and I've been thoroughly ashamed of myself about it (but what can I do?). It tastes modernish and not the style I would imagine SF Joe would like. Is there an older style of the wine?
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Hmmm, it's been a while. Do I misremember?
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There is some smoothness to the tannins, which occurs ALMOST everywhere in the region these days, but he is not modernist in technique.
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This is the guy who makes the Cornas vin noir as well? According to his rep at a tasting, he has a relatively free hand with oak and I could taste it. Like I said, I liked the wines, but they didn't taste old school to me.
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Can only tell you what I've seen on several visits, the most recent being in May of last year. Has the rep ever visited? As far as people claiming to detect new oak in many wines, especially Syrah-based wines, I am on this board at least once a month correcting people about it. Just last week we had specious claims of lots of new oak on de Villaine's Bouzeron and on Gripa's wines (VS confirming me that they are not oaky), and the week before it was Roulot's Bourgogne. So this thread now makes four times in two weeks. With Syrah in particular, there are elements that can resemble new oak but that are not the result of such treatment.

Here's what Livingstone-Learmonth has to say about Robert on his website (www.drinkrhone.com):

"LVT 2007 r 2007 wh A domaine of undoubted promise, with some STGT leanings in the wines. The wines come in an elegant fashion, with genuine textures and an emphasis on pleasure in the drinking. The St-Prays are agreeable both on their own and with food. The Cornas is marked by early tannins and the Prestige or Vin Noir is best to drink from 4 to 5 years on. The St-Joseph is a soft wine, accessible early on. Rental agreements mean that Stphane Robert now has access to old vineyards, boosting the set of young vines that he has laboured hard to plant since his arrival at St-Pray in 1993-94."

STGT leanings would not be consistent with lots of new oak.
 
Like I said, I liked the wines. I'm happy to find I'm ideologically justified in liking the wines and not a candidate for cultural re-education. His Cornas don't taste like no Verset to me, though.
 
Wow, 47 posts and no mention of JL Grippat.

At this point I think Gonon is the tops, if you want to name a top. Generally, this appellation seems a bit muddled and too many of the best sites marred by oak. But, honestly, there are many I haven't tried.
 
originally posted by Brad L i l j e q u i s t:
Wow, 47 posts and no mention of JL Grippat.

At this point I think Gonon is the tops, if you want to name a top. Generally, this appellation seems a bit muddled and too many of the best sites marred by oak. But, honestly, there are many I haven't tried.
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Guigal bought Grippat's vines about ten years ago - that's why.

Sigh, best sites -- which are mostly Mauves-Tournon-St Epine and a little bit at the north end (really should be a separate appellation) are NOT MARRED BY OAK. If you truly are drinking best sites marred by oak, you're drinking the wrong producers. The exception that proves the rule is Guigal, where the oak just does not take to the St-Jo in my experience and the sites (the former Grippat vines) are fantastic.
 
Sudden thought -- Did I miss something somewhere that required posters on this bulletin board to blame the problems with all wines that they don't like on excessive use of oak?
 
Yeah, I realize Guigal bought him out. Just had the 97 l'Hospice last night, in fact.

Guigal is an unfortunate trendsetter. And I guess in my experience with them the oak can show through - a recent Hospice blanc was awful.

I think the modernite vibe can tend to trump the patrimonie over there...
 
Claude, can you recommend two wines that I may try, side by side, in which one is a syrah that "shows oaky" while the other is a genuinely over-oaked wine? I would like to learn to tell the difference. Thank you.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
there are a few other producers' wines I'd rather have from St. Joe. Much as I love the AOC, of course.
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As someone born and raised in St Joe, I can honestly say I'm unaware of any quality wines made there.

oh, wait - st Joe FRANCE????

never mind
 
Good sites marred by poor oak practices: Guigal, Coursodon, Cuilleron, Delas, Gaillard. That's a lot of the good sites and too many for me.
 
While I don't have the details on "Cuvee Unique" vs. Cuvee not-Unique, I will say that some Gaillard St Joes that I've had in France have been quite nice. Not all, some. I have had much less luck with the wines when sourced in the US, whatever their source.
 
originally posted by Brad L i l j e q u i s t:
Good sites marred by poor oak practices: Guigal, Coursodon, Cuilleron, Delas, Gaillard. That's a lot of the good sites and too many for me.
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And they're the wrong people, except for Coursodon's non-Sensonne St-Joes. Actually, I'm unsure that Cuilleron and Gaillard have really good sites, at least not in the league with the others who are all down in the Mauves-Tournon-St Epine sector.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Claude, can you recommend two wines that I may try, side by side, in which one is a syrah that "shows oaky" while the other is a genuinely over-oaked wine? I would like to learn to tell the difference. Thank you.
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Well, above it's been wrongly suggested that Gripa and Robert are using a lot of new oak. You could compare their St-Joes to the ones Brad lists above. For Cornas, you could compare Robert to Tardieu-Laurent.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Sudden thought -- Did I miss something somewhere that required posters on this bulletin board to blame the problems with all wines that they don't like on excessive use of oak?
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Bwahahahaha,

our plan to gaslight Claude has finally succeeded.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Claude, can you recommend two wines that I may try, side by side, in which one is a syrah that "shows oaky" while the other is a genuinely over-oaked wine? I would like to learn to tell the difference. Thank you.
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Well, above it's been wrongly suggested that Gripa and Robert are using a lot of oak. You could compare their St-Joes to the ones Brad lists above. For Cornas, you could compare Robert to Tardieu-Laurent.
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My tasting of wood in the Tunnel may have been just my faulty palate and thus not a fair reference point for Jeff. Also Tardieu-Laurent is a bit of a comic book opposition. Even when I see the labels, I really can't tell one of his wines from another. They don't have to be that cartoonish to show some marks of modernity.
 
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