Monier St. Joseph

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Claude, can you recommend two wines that I may try, side by side, in which one is a syrah that "shows oaky" while the other is a genuinely over-oaked wine? I would like to learn to tell the difference. Thank you.
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Well, above it's been wrongly suggested that Gripa and Robert are using a lot of oak. You could compare their St-Joes to the ones Brad lists above. For Cornas, you could compare Robert to Tardieu-Laurent.
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My tasting of wood in the Tunnel may have been just my faulty palate and thus not a fair reference point for Jeff. Also Tardieu-Laurent is a bit of a comic book opposition. Even when I see the labels, I really can't tell one of his wines from another. They don't have to be that cartoonish to show some marks of modernity.
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The truth is, there are very few people in Cornas that are using much, if any, new wood. Other than Tardieu-Laurent, I guess there is Delas (get pre-2006), and Jean Lionnet (not the Lionnet Rosenthal now has) did, but I lost track of those wines sometime in the early- to mid-1990s, and he no longer is producing. Maybe Chapoutier did at one time, but hasn't for some time. Possibly Cuilleron or his partnered operation with Gaillard and Villard have a negociant Cornas with new wood -- I don't know as it is not anything that I would seek out. Colombo? -- I don't know, I haven't visited for some time, but I think not. Does St-Cosme produce a Cornas? If so, I bet it has gobs of oak.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
Voge?
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He did at times and for certain cuves. Last time I visited, if I recall correctly (I don't have my notes with me), the estate was cutting back again -- this was already when Albric Mazoyer was taking over production.
 
Good to hear. I did not know how things would go under Mazoyer and haven't tasted anything from him yet.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:

The truth is, there are very few people in Cornas that are using much, if any, new wood. Other than Tardieu-Laurent, I guess there is Delas (get pre-2006), and Jean Lionnet (not the Lionnet Rosenthal now has) did, but I lost track of those wines sometime in the early- to mid-1990s, and he no longer is producing. Maybe Chapoutier did at one time, but hasn't for some time. Possibly Cuilleron or his partnered operation with Gaillard and Villard have a negociant Cornas with new wood -- I don't know as it is not anything that I would seek out. Colombo? -- I don't know, I haven't visited for some time, but I think not. Does St-Cosme produce a Cornas? If so, I bet it has gobs of oak.
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What about Colombo? His early wines had new oak showing but I haven't had anything from him in a long time (for the obvious reasons). One thing that makes a strict head-to-head comparison of oaked/non-oaked Syrahs difficult is the confounding variable of overextraction, since many (if not all) of the new oak purveyors tend to also go for maximal extraction. However, I freely admit to being no expert on the spoofy set, so take that observation with liberal amounts of salt.

Mark Lipton
 
Recently had the 05 St. Joseph by Jean Delobre of La Ferme Des Sept Lunes. I suppose it could be described as modern in that it isn't distinctly old style like Trollat but it hits the right notes. Oak not an issue on this wine. There may be some still around. Learmonth bequeaths an STGT here.

Similarly Laurent Combier in Pont de l'Isre (Crozes-Hermitage) is going about things in the preferred manner and may be on target. Again not old style, but pure, unmarked syrah.

I should say that I've only tried one wine from each of these guys but I think further investigation is
warranted.
 
Each to his own. I keep trying Combier and the wines just don't do anything for me, not that there is anything wrong with them.

Emmanual Darnaud is much more to my tastes for Crozes, not to mention Rousset. Incidentally, Darnaud has the same importer as Gonon here in CA, and he will eventually take over for Bernard Faurie with whom he trained for four years.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
not that there is anything wrong with them.
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I'm not selling anything, just suggesting possible sources of of untrampled syrah. Considering some of the indictments put forward, not having "anything wrong" can be seen as a positive, right.
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
not that there is anything wrong with them.
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I'm not selling anything, just suggesting possible sources of of untrampled syrah. Considering some of the indictments put forward, not having "anything wrong" can be seen as a positive, right.
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I see that Livingstone-Learmonth reports 30-40% new wood here. That probably explains why I find the wines innocuous and not full of character.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I see that Livingstone-Learmonth reports 30-40% new wood here. That probably explains why I find the wines innocuous and not full of character.
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Hmm... are we talking about the same domain? I'm referring to this one. What you're saying isn't matched by the importers domain profile or my tasting experience.
 
I opened the Tunnel tonight. I don't taste oak or woodiness in there. I sense no coconut or vanilla or dill or moth-proofing cedar.

I'll drink the other half of the bottle on Thursday.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I opened the Tunnel tonight. I don't taste oak or woodiness in there. I sense no coconut or vanilla or dill or moth-proofing cedar.

I'll drink the other half of the bottle on Thursday.
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Which one and what year?
I have some '05s (St Joseph and the regular Cornas) but I have this feeling that now would be a bad time to try one.
 
originally posted by Marc D:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I opened the Tunnel tonight. I don't taste oak or woodiness in there. I sense no coconut or vanilla or dill or moth-proofing cedar.

I'll drink the other half of the bottle on Thursday.
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Which one and what year?
I have some '05s (St Joseph and the regular Cornas) but I have this feeling that now would be a bad time to try one.
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I had the 05 St. Joseph within the last month or so. It is drinking nicely now and has opened up some since last year. I'm letting my Cornas sleep so I don't know how they are doing.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I'll drink the other half of the bottle on Thursday.
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Wine was very similar tonight to what it was on Tuesday.

No syrah-oaky learning for me tonight. Maybe I should learn not to listen to the Prof too closely?
 
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