And people bitch about Kermit Lynch mark ups. . .

the only ways that Premier Cru would have something at half the price is if 1) they were indeed trying to make KLWM look bad and not taking much/any profit on the items, 2) they bought the wines at a discount/closeout from a distributor, or 3) it might be the same producer as the KLWM wines, but one that was brought in gray market and is not an official Kermit Lynch import.
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For that Cote Rotie it was definitely a KLWM import. They used to do the same thing price-wise with ZH although I don't know if that was KLWM (was it exclusive?) and I never really cared to follow.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:

For that Cote Rotie it was definitely a KLWM import.
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I just looked at a bottle--Bernard Guy 2000 Cote Rotie. KL sticker on the back, and it was $19.99. I have no idea how they did it, but I've enjoyed my case.
 
If they are complaining about the prices at the retail store versus places like Premier Cru, the only ways that Premier Cru would have something at half the price is if 1) they were indeed trying to make KLWM look bad and not taking much/any profit on the items, 2) they bought the wines at a discount/closeout from a distributor, or 3) it might be the same producer as the KLWM wines, but one that was brought in gray market and is not an official Kermit Lynch import.
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But suppose that PC buys massive quantities of all the KLWM wines and charges lots of money for Raveneau, Coche, and other cherries but bombs out the less collectable wines at a lower margin. And maybe they're also able to pick up wines from the KLWM national side of the biz that distributors around the country aren't interested in carrying (the Guy Bernard CR is likely too geeky a wine to fly out the doors of the Keokuk or Omaha BevMo at a $40 SRP when you can get Yellow Tail Shiraz for $10) so PC does KLWM's national distribution side a solid by moving wine through the warehouse and getting it to people who'll drink and enjoy them, opening up the possibility that they'll pay full-boat for that wine in subsequent vintages. KLWM doesn't have to do big sales to create room in the warehouse for the next vintage and everybody wins except maybe for the clerks in the KLWM retail store who have to explain to their customers why some wines are available for less money a couple of miles away. That might be what's happening.

It's not been my experience that there's not any attempt on PC's part to undercut KLWM's retail biz due to malice, spite or desire to make them look bad. It's pretty much just business. I buy regularly from the retail store because I appreciate their service and suggestions and the access to some of the wines that don't make it to national distribution. The level of expertise on the part of the staff is worth the extra kale to me and since I don't rate high enough with PC to get any service whatsoever, I don't exactly sit around waiting for their email offers.

-Eden (thank heavens that KLWM doesn't import Chave anymore - I'd be bankrupt)
 
But suppose that PC buys massive quantities of all the KLWM wines and charges lots of money for Raveneau, Coche, and other cherries but bombs out the less collectable wines at a lower margin. And maybe they're also able to pick up wines from the KLWM national side of the biz that distributors around the country aren't interested in carrying (the Guy Bernard CR is likely too geeky a wine to fly out the doors of the Keokuk or Omaha BevMo at a $40 SRP when you can get Yellow Tail Shiraz for $10) so PC does KLWM's national distribution side a solid by moving wine through the warehouse and getting it to people who'll drink and enjoy them, opening up the possibility that they'll pay full-boat for that wine in subsequent vintages. KLWM doesn't have to do big sales to create room in the warehouse for the next vintage and everybody wins except maybe for the clerks in the KLWM retail store who have to explain to their customers why some wines are available for less money a couple of miles away. That might be what's happening.
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It was the 00 Bernard that I remember buying and enjoying (for the $20 price). And this is the sanest explanation I've heard yet. Thanks.
 
Isn't Guy Bernard actually Guigal or something like that? Not that it makes the wine bad or anything, I've actually enjoyed a few bottles, I seem to recall one of the 2001s was nice - but it's not exactly the obscure farmer making a few bottles, or am I remembering incorrectly?
 
originally posted by mlawton:
Isn't Guy Bernard actually Guigal or something like that? Not that it makes the wine bad or anything, I've actually enjoyed a few bottles, I seem to recall one of the 2001s was nice - but it's not exactly the obscure farmer making a few bottles, or am I remembering incorrectly?
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Never heard that before. Doesn't seem to square with the KLWM angle, but what do I know?
 
originally posted by mlawton:
Isn't Guy Bernard actually Guigal or something like that? Not that it makes the wine bad or anything, I've actually enjoyed a few bottles, I seem to recall one of the 2001s was nice - but it's not exactly the obscure farmer making a few bottles, or am I remembering incorrectly?
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No Guigal influence, unless they hang out at parties together or something. Guy Bernard retired at the beginning of the century and sons Stphane and Frdric took over. The wines have become a little more modern in the ensuing years but the change hasn't been all that radical. They've got 4.5 hectares to work with, spread around the appellation (including a little Cte Brune), with a fair amount of their holdings being old vines.

The 1995 and 1999 are my favorites of the recent vintages but I have high hopes for what the brothers Bernard can achieve in the future.

-Eden (given the choice, would you rather be bought out by Guigal or Chapoutier?)
 
originally posted by Marshall Manning:
Mark has it pretty much correct, although because of different freight costs and different margins by the various distributors & retailers around the country, the Berkeley store often has wines cheaper than they sell for at retail in other states. They actually have a retail division for the store and a wholesale division (Bruce Neyers is the National Sales Manager) that gets the wine to distributors around the country.

I thought people were talking about the price of KLWM imports for similar wines from other importers. If they are complaining about the prices at the retail store versus places like Premier Cru, the only ways that Premier Cru would have something at half the price is if 1) they were indeed trying to make KLWM look bad and not taking much/any profit on the items, 2) they bought the wines at a discount/closeout from a distributor, or 3) it might be the same producer as the KLWM wines, but one that was brought in gray market and is not an official Kermit Lynch import.
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I had some experience with buying wine at PC that was priced considerably more at KLWM. The wine I got, a Colin-Deleger Chassagne Montrachet Chaumees as I recall, still had the KLWM label on it, so I don't see how it was gray market. The guys at PC told me that (2) was the story, that they bought it on closeout. Shortly after that, KLWM seemed to cut them off from any further purchases--haven't seen another of the KLWM wines at Premier Cru ever since. Still, I took the difference in price as the markup, since I don't see why KLWM would have unloaded the wine at below their import (wholesale) cost...

The Kermit Lynch wines are definitely high retail, but like North Berkeley Imports, they cannot undersell their retail outlets. Still, one has to think twice about the wines one buys there--I did get a case of the 2005 Joguet Franc de Pieds that I am glad I own for $40/bottle, but one can also find (for example) the 2005 Baudry Chinon Greseaux across the bay for $18...
 
Carl -- From what I could tell, PC for a long time was buying a lot of wines through Kermit in order to sell the cherries at high markups and the others would be sold at cost -- sometimes immediately listed that way, sometimes dropped to that price for the special sales.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Carl -- From what I could tell, PC for a long time was buying a lot of wines through Kermit in order to sell the cherries at high markups and the others would be sold at cost -- sometimes immediately listed that way, sometimes dropped to that price for the special sales.
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Yes, I think this is what happened. They were selling at cost here, or so close to it that it was effectively the same.

Of course, Kermit Lynch is a bit anomalous here in that you have to factor in that he is an importer of genius, with his uncanny ability to root out those great and up and coming producers.
 
originally posted by Marshall Manning:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Regarding the title of this thread, it's amazing how everyone dumps on Lynch, who sometimes does indeed take high markups (but also sometimes takes low markups), but overlooks many of his competitors who often outdo him in the frequency and amount of their above-average markups.
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I work for one of the KL distributors in OR, so will stay quiet on this issue except for this: When everyone else was having trouble getting wines from France this year because of strikes, every single one of our containers arrived on time. If you've ever had to deal with other importers (ahem, Robert Kacher) who have no clue when things will arrive, who send wrong vintages, and who are generally unreliable, it's nice to have an organization like KLWM that is professional, timely and incredibly accurate considering the amount of wine they ship. You may pay a little extra for it, but when it's your business, it's worth it.
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Triage? I also sell some Hermit in VA. Points very well made. I think professionalism in the wine business has always been under-rated.
 
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