what's up with cedric bouchard?

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Let's say i tolerated inflorescence a couple times, never really impressed me though, and i really hated a "roses de jeanne" bought from garagiste (by jim hanlon). Today, i'm looking at his website, trying to figure out where are the vineyards, what kind of vinification, agriculture he's practicing and while i'm looking more closely at one of his label, i see a little N.D on at the bottom...
NEGOCIANT/DISTRIBUTEUR, meaning, they don't own vineyards, they don't even make wine, they buy wine in bottle and make labels!!
and i see his wines all over the place, sold as the alternative to selosse...

so, anybody knows more about this operation, am i missing something?
 
He doesn't own the vines for Inflorescence (his father does), as opposed to Roses de Jeanne, so that gave him the ND hat. However, more stricto sensu, he did buy a plot called La Parcelle, and was impressed enough with the previous grower's vinification that he bought back stocks, which as a ND he can sell under the Inflorescence label. So, yes, he is being a ngoce. (Though he now owns and vinifies La Parcelle, going forward.)

Also not my favorite style, but Peter is working with me on that....
 
i read peter's thing on him, i still don't understand why it's labelled ND and NM!
ND means he's buying wine that's allready bottled. NM is for people buying fruit but making wine...it just seems a little strange. Where are the vineyards?
 
Yes, he bought La Parcelle (in Celles-sur-Ource) in 2007 AND also bought the remaining wine made by the previous owner. He liked the previous owner's viticulture and vinification, so he bought his old stocks of wine. He is now releasing them with his own label.

His own bottlings of La Parcelle will come out several years from now, starting with the 2007 vintage.

The NM is just a technicality; his father owns the Val Vilaine vines (in Polisy), but Cdric Bouchard actually farms them.
 
Probably not a good time to be down on C. Bouchard, given what has been talked about as being in the pipeline quality-wise.

But if you pass on what is coming, let me know and I'll pick up your bottles.
 
I hadn't been aware of that regarding La Parcelle. So those bottles downstairs can be relabeled with an
anonymous sticker I guess...
 
I've admired the wines for awhile now (awhile being since July, after serving them at IPNC.) His set-up is a tad confusing, but in many way Bouchard's winery and his wines are working outside the traditional Champagne model. It isn't surprising his enterprise doesn't quite fit the existing expectations of a grower's business. Anyone needing answers can just read some of the posts above. Anyone needing a good bottle of Champagne should at least try Bouchard, as the wines play that boundary between delicate and assertive, but above all they are as driven by terroir as anything out there.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Probably not a good time to be down on C. Bouchard, given what has been talked about as being in the pipeline quality-wise.

But if you pass on what is coming, let me know and I'll pick up your bottles.
Click to expand...

I will probably pass on these wines for one simple reason, i can't trust someone that puts his name on a bottle of wine that he didn't make, where he didn't even worked the vineyard. For that price, i expect a little more transparency.
Levi, if you don't mind buying that, have as much fun as you want with my allocation....
 
originally posted by guilhaume:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Probably not a good time to be down on C. Bouchard, given what has been talked about as being in the pipeline quality-wise.

But if you pass on what is coming, let me know and I'll pick up your bottles.
Click to expand...

I will probably pass on these wines for one simple reason, i can't trust someone that puts his name on a bottle of wine that he didn't make, where he didn't even worked the vineyard. For that price, i expect a little more transparency.
Levi, if you don't mind buying that, have as much fun as you want with my allocation....
Click to expand...

That's a nice sentiment. How do you feel about Huet? Passing on that as well?
 
originally posted by guilhaume:
I will probably pass on these wines for one simple reason, i can't trust someone that puts his name on a bottle of wine that he didn't make, where he didn't even worked the vineyard. For that price, i expect a little more transparency.
Levi, if you don't mind buying that, have as much fun as you want with my allocation....
Click to expand...

Sorry, Guilhaume, but he saw the finished wine, and he felt it corresponded to his vision of the plot and considered it was appropriate for his label.

It's like Rodin signing his talented protgs' work.
 
Noel owns vineyards and makes wines, i've seen both cellars and vineyards, they are real. Because they sell some wines pre-huet (anything before 1924?) doesn't make them a Negociant-Distributeur...
so, no, i'm certainly not passing on huet!
 
Sorry, Guilhaume, but he saw the finished wine, and he felt it corresponded to his vision of the plot and considered it was appropriate for his label.

It's like Rodin signing his talented protgs' work.
[/quote]

I'VE ALWAYS SAID

Rodin is a crook!

So, have you visited him yet? if not, let's just go after that Recoltant Manipulant we're seeing in a couple weeks, i'll find out where is hiding...
 
If there's ever been an argument for "if the wine tastes good so what" then this might be it.

Of course if you are not impressed with the wines then nothing else really matters does it?
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
If there's ever been an argument for "if the wine tastes good so what" then this might be it.

Of course if you are not impressed with the wines then nothing else really matters does it?
Click to expand...

well, seeing the wines marketed by some as the "new selosse" while the guy is basically a label maker (even if it's only on a few cuvee) would matter to me, and i think it should matter to all of us.
 
originally posted by guilhaume:
Noel owns vineyards and makes wines, i've seen both cellars and vineyards, they are real. Because they sell some wines pre-huet (anything before 1924?) doesn't make them a Negociant-Distributeur...
so, no, i'm certainly not passing on huet!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I am having trouble seeing the difference here. Are you saying that Bouchard doesn't own vineyards or make wine?

Huet didn't just sell some wines they didn't make, they did so with an Huet label on them. Just because it happened a long time ago doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Is the difference that you yourself have visited one of the producers and been welcomed there, but not at the other?

How do you feel about Maison Leroy?
 
originally posted by guilhaume:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
If there's ever been an argument for "if the wine tastes good so what" then this might be it.

Of course if you are not impressed with the wines then nothing else really matters does it?
Click to expand...

well, seeing the wines marketed by some as the "new selosse" while the guy is basically a label maker (even if it's only on a few cuvee) would matter to me, and i think it should matter to all of us.
Click to expand...

Seeing the guy being completely dismissed should also matter to all of us.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by guilhaume:
Noel owns vineyards and makes wines, i've seen both cellars and vineyards, they are real. Because they sell some wines pre-huet (anything before 1924?) doesn't make them a Negociant-Distributeur...
so, no, i'm certainly not passing on huet!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I am having trouble seeing the difference here. Are you saying that Bouchard doesn't own vineyards or make wine?

Huet didn't just sell some wines they didn't make, they did so with an Huet label on them. Just because it happened a long time ago doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Is the difference that you yourself have visited one of the producers and been welcomed there, but not at the other?

How do you feel about Maison Leroy?
Click to expand...

I'm saying that as far as i know, ND means negociant distributeur, the definition of that would be someone buying wines already bottled and labeling them with his name. I don't know enough about him, that's why i started the thread, wanting to know more about it from people that have seen the vineyards and the cellar.

As far as HUET is concerned, it's definitely a valid point you're making here. They should have labeled it with the MASSE-VIOLLET name on it, i can't agree more with you on that issue.

I did visit huet, was welcomed there, great experience. I'm looking forward to visit bouchard as well if the line-up i will be tasting is to my taste.

I'm not trying to dismiss the guy, i was just surprised to see everybody talking about this new "small grower" that labels his wines N.D, and want to know more about it.

How do i feel about maison LEROY?
nothing, the wines don't talk to me. In general, biodynamics "a la Chapoutier" is of very little interest to me.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by guilhaume:
Noel owns vineyards and makes wines, i've seen both cellars and vineyards, they are real. Because they sell some wines pre-huet (anything before 1924?) doesn't make them a Negociant-Distributeur...
so, no, i'm certainly not passing on huet!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I am having trouble seeing the difference here. Are you saying that Bouchard doesn't own vineyards or make wine?

Huet didn't just sell some wines they didn't make, they did so with an Huet label on them. Just because it happened a long time ago doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Is the difference that you yourself have visited one of the producers and been welcomed there, but not at the other?
Click to expand...

Red herring wrapped in a straw man. Practicing this now is totally different in kind to practicing this 85 years ago.

It is not transparent which wines are made from grown grapes, purchased grapes, or purchased wine, or purchased bottled wine. Thi sis a very big issue fro some folks.

I'm indifferent as I don't care all that much about the wines.

How do you feel about Maison Leroy?
Click to expand...

I'm almost certain that pigfucker#1 (or 2 or 3 if it's them) would say yes.
 
It's not just the '21.

Had '53 Le Mont demi-sec over the weekend, quite tasty. But they didn't make it.
 
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