Two Rioja (the place, not the wine) questions

T

Thor

Thor Iverson
Wineries: we've got one day and are staying in Haro. Other than LdH, where should I visit? I figure two wineries in a single day is enough, factoring in time for lunch.

Dinner: I presume we will dine at Las Duelas one night, since that's where we're staying. Any other recommendations (or a warning against the named establishment) would be welcome. I've no preference as to cuisine: low-end, high-end, traditional, modernist, etc., though something rooted in the local traditions and a good (doesn't have to be "great") list would be bonuses. We'll probably also need a good place for lunch.

Thanks much for any wisdom.
 
no wisdom, just envy

a second winery could be this? could be a little different

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louisdressner.com

(sorry, i have no idea where he's located...i just noted that at least one of the wines sources grapes from Rioja Alta...tho the winery could be anywhere)
 
Visits: Roda in Haro, Muga in Haro, Abel Mendoza in San Vicente de la Sonsierra

Restaurants: Casa Toni in San Vicente de la Sonsierra, six miles from Haro, serves modern but strongly Rioja-inspired cuisine (a second dining room, Toni Tradicional, serves purely traditional fare), good Rioja wine list. http://www.casatoni.es/
 
Thanks Joel, Scott, and Victor. That restaurant sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.

Victor, if I may impose a second time, do you know of anything casual and lunch-worthy near Leyre?
 
Cart before the horse I realize, but if expectations are met Thor, might I suggest "You had me at Haro" for your report title?

sorry, couldn't help it
 
The best bet for lunch near Leyre would be the Hotel Xabier at Javier, four miles away: http://www.hotelxabier.com/index.php?section=6&lang=eng_US

It's a bit ritzy (lobster salad, steak with foie gras) and, with wine, between 40 and 50 euros possibly not the best definition of a 'casual' place. El Mesn, also in Javier, has a good reputation (I haven't been there) as a simpler, family-run inn with good traditional Navarra cuisine stuffed asparagus, bell peppers (and piquillo peppers), vegetable and ham 'menestra', stewed pigeon... No idea about the depth of the wine list (don't expect miracles).
 
Thanks much. Those are the two places I found on Guia Campsa, as well, so I'll count that as a double recommendation.
 
Oh -I couldn't find El Mesn on the current Repsol (formerly Campsa) guide. Maybe they've dropped the place - which wouldn't be such a good sign? My local sources do say it's OK.
 
I might be confusing two places...there's this that came up as proximate when I searched for restaurants in Leyre:

Mesn Las Torres - http://www.mesonlastorres.com/
C/ Santa Maria 9
Uju

Not in Javier, obviously (which I now realize having actually looked at the results of my research), and there are clearly many restaurants with a similar name, so you might be talking about a different establishment.

Is ex-Campsa/now-Repsol still reliable? Is there now another that's better? I don't know that I'm actually going to be using it much (the various food sites, some already replete with your recommendations, were more than thorough enough for the places we'll be; for example, I probably don't actually need all 77 recommendations I've assembled for Donostia-San Sebastin), but like most I don't know that I trust Michelin in Spain; my experience with the latter is, as in Italy, one gets perfectly fine restaurants that may or may not have anything to do with what's actually interesting, locally traditional, or (in Spain) reliably innovative.
 
Forget Michelin. Repsol is OK, but uneven (some regions are covered much better than others). And this El Mesn is indeed a different place.
 
I do indeed forget Michelin outside France (and increasingly within), but meanwhile I'm more dismayed that you were using Zagat. (the emoticon, were it to be allowed, would go here)
 
Where was I using Zagat? You mean my post elsewhere on Miami restaurants? No, I was using Andr Gayot and local sources, as I usually do in the US. Zagat was my analogy for Cellar Tracker - not an exact one, I know, and quite possibly a rather unfair one, but just my way of expressing my skepticism about "democratic" restaurant or wine guides.
 
one needs to be careful not to lump the "functional" part of cellartracker with the "critical". Successful and rewarding use of one area does not require attention to the other.
 
originally posted by VS:
Where was I using Zagat? You mean my post elsewhere on Miami restaurants? No, I was using Andr Gayot and local sources, as I usually do in the US. Zagat was my analogy for Cellar Tracker - not an exact one, I know, and quite possibly a rather unfair one, but just my way of expressing my skepticism about "democratic" restaurant or wine guides.
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Amen.

One only need see the reviews in Orlando or San Diego to share the validity of those doubts, not to speak of the outer boroughs.
 
Where was I using Zagat? You mean my post elsewhere on Miami restaurants?
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You wrote "I have (as usual when I'm in the USA) suffered from Zagat's very democratic overrating of restaurants," thus it was possible to understand that your suffering was current to the post in question, and it was certain that you'd used it in the past. Glad to hear it wasn't current, at least. I wouldn't wish Zagat on anyone.
 
Andr Gayot, a veteran from the old, legendary Gault & Millau guide in France, back in the 1970s (and a guide I always followed back then), maintains in his US guide that no Miami restaurant is worth more than 16/20 on the old G&M 20-point scale. (Yes, I realize that point scales are abhorred on this board, but bear with me.) I find that view rather sensible. OTOH, the enthusiastic, local "people's reviewers" in Miami give one 29/30 and one 28/30 rating, plus a myriad 25+-points, to eating places in Dade County, and that's absurd. I just spent six days in Miami, and besides modest, no-gastronomic-pretense Cuban places, which I liked in their infinite humility, my best meal was at an equally unpretentious Peruvian restaurant, Francesco: good raw materials (a rare thing in Miami...) and some authentic cooking - the stuff tastes just like in Lima.
 
originally posted by VS:

I just spent six days in Miami, and besides modest, no-gastronomic-pretense Cuban places, which I liked in their infinite humility, my best meal was at an equally unpretentious Peruvian restaurant, Francesco: good raw materials (a rare thing in Miami...) and some authentic cooking - the stuff tastes just like in Lima.
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Eating in such places is the key to eating really well in a restaurant in South Florida. I really miss the little cuban 24 hour take out window that was 3 blocks from my house. There was a place next to the main branch of the Miami Public Library that I liked a lot as well. Those were some of my favorite restaurants in Florida. Those and the restaurant John G's on the Lake Worth Beach. The food at that place was simple but amazing. People would wait in lines 40 deep to get in, every single day.

That said Michelle Bernstein was doing some great food when she was with the Mandarin on Brickell Key. I have no knowledge of the restaurants she is currently working with.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I have no knowledge of the restaurants she is currently working with.
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She has her own, very well-considered place on the Upper East Side of Miami, Michy's - I didn't get a chance to visit, though.
 
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