Storage Issues: What should I put in my wine cooler?

[MLipton]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I hate to be a stick in anyone's wheel (but should feel safe from lashings, hereabouts, as the stakes require some kind of microscope), but I don't feel Chteauneuf is for aging. Really, I see not the interest in such.* So the contention that Cairanne and Vacqueyras (lovely appellations that no one ever, ever talks about) are for younger drinking seems moot, to me. You can't drink a good C. or V. at under 5 years, so the difference between them and CdP is hairsplittin'.

You raise an interesting point, Sharon. Putting aside for the moment the sniping of those who don't care for Grenache full stop, your point is one that I've heard before but don't agree with at all. To me, the beauty of CdP and, by extension, Grenache, is the "femininity" it takes on with sufficient bottle age. To me, there is possibly no better match with smoked game birds than older CdP, which take on a silky presence and aromatic qualities that I love. In a weird way, it's a bit to me like the transformation undergone by Nebbiolo upon aging, though in Nebbiolo it's a far more dramatic shift.

YMMV of course (is that French?)
Mark Lipton

 

[Ned Hoey]

Wouldn't site, cepage, style, and vintage make it an "it depends"?

Also, doesn't no age vs some vs a lot complicate the equation too?

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Actually, I don't have any extended experience with "high-enders" because I don't buy them. I've tasted Hommage a Perrin twice and and 00, 03 and 07 to be da Capo as a result of the indulgence of the domaines. I would be very surprised to see any of them break apart. My 90 regular Beaucastel as well as my 90 Pegau have both been drinking beautifully in the last year, with no sign of dying so I can't imagine that vineyard select versions would do worse.

I did buy 90 and 98 Papet in CdP at affordable prices. Neither of them has broken apart at all. So I don't know how to account for Sharon's experience.

Part of the issue may be what one expects aging to do. Certainly the bright flavors of the first released wines are gone. And if this is what one wants, then there are a lot of CdRs that are much better bang for the buck. But I'm with Mark that a lot of CdPs, and not just the big names, become more delicate and complex after 10 years or so of age. I still remember the monkey raving over a 95 (yes 95!) Clos des Papes when it was about 10 or 11. But if you're not a fan of that, then yes, best to go with Cairannes, not to mention CdR from Charvin and a few others (although Charvin CdRs seem to be aging well too).

 

[Thor]

To me, young CdP tastes like grenache. Grenache from Chteauneuf-du-Pape, with all that brings, but still grenache. (There's the occasional intrusion of mourvdre, etc., but they're exceptions.) I know a lot of people like big, ripe grenache from lots of places, but I'm not one of them. Chteauneuf-du-Pape becomes Chteauneuf-du-Pape when it ages, and I've had too many beautiful older versions to not know that I clearly prefer one to the other.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Ned Hoey:
Wouldn't site, cepage, style, and vintage make it an "it depends"?

Of course. This discussion only makes sense in the context of the few dedicated traditionalists in CdP (vide supra).

Also, doesn't no age vs some vs a lot complicate the equation too?

To an extent, perhaps, but I've gone on record as saying that I prefer my CdP with 15-20 years on it. Drinking it at 10 years is no tragedy, as it generally shuts down from about years 3-8, but it doesn't reward me with the same delicacy as it will later. Of course, I also prefer my Cornas with about 15-20 years on it, so feel free to write me off as a hopeless oenonecrophiliac.

Mark Lipton

 

[BJ]

CnP not good aged? Whoa.

Sorry Sharon.

Young CnP for me is just not that interesting.

I think the sweet spot for CNP, vintage depending, is about 12-15 years. For me, after about 15 it starts to loose its distinctiveness and becomes more generic - I love it, but it has generally a pretty uniform profile between producers. In that 12-15 range it's moved into tertieries, but tertiaries with distinction.

My fave CnP vintages right now are 94 and 96. I break my own rule for 95 which I think is still too young.

99 should be dandy in about two years.

As far as CdR, my favorite appellation by a long shot is St. Gervais, which I think has terroirs approaching those of CnP, exceeding Vacqueyras, and on par with the best Gigondas. Top honors go to the Texier Cadinierres and Domaine St. Anne.

 

[MarkS]

...feel free to write me off as a hopeless oenonecrophiliac.

You are English, aren't you?!

And add my voice to the choir that says CdP Needs to be aged. If you don't age them, then why even bother? Drink the cheaper grenache appelations. Personally, I prefer 8-12 years on mine, depending on vintage of course (and producer).

 

[Salil Benegal]

originally posted by MLipton:
To me, there is possibly no better match with smoked game birds than older CdP, which take on a silky presence and aromatic qualities that I love.

While I haven't tried the older CdP/smoked game bird combination, I'm with you on the qualities of older Chateauneuf - I've gotten bored quite quickly with a lot of younger ones, but the few old CdPs I've had have been gorgeous. Some of the older bottles of Pegau, Janasse and Charvin I've enjoyed have been amazing experiences with a light touch, elegance and complexity I've found enthralling.

Salil (Not limited to just CDPs either - that '98 Fonsalette CDR was a real beauty a few nights ago)

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
But at least y'all 'll understand.

Actually, the proper usage is all y'all. But thanks for doing y'all instead of ya'll.

We're in agreement, more or less.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I still remember the monkey raving over a 95 (yes 95!) Clos des Papes when it was about 10 or 11. But if you're not a fan of that, then yes, best to go with Cairannes, not to mention CdR from Charvin and a few others (although Charvin CdRs seem to be aging well too).

I still have 1 bottle left (~$25 when I bought it).

I've also , more or less, capitulated to your view of 1995 (with the notable exception of Clos des Papes and Vieux-Tlgraph).

I like Charvin a lot when it's good, but have had decidedly mixed experiences.

I won't pay $50 for it.