TN: Strada Provinciale 68 and other roads

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
The 2007 Passopisciaro "Passopisciaro" red is too oaky for me. I greatly preferred the 2006.
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Could you say a little more about that? Are you saying, as in "underwined"? Or for near term drinking?
I really enjoyed the 05, have some 06 that I haven't opened, and was thinking about the now available 07.
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Well, I think your question implies that the straight Passopisciaro "Passopisciaro" red (as opposed to the Passopisciaro "Franchetti") is generally for ageing, and that is not my take. Checking in with the 2005 not too long ago, I found a wine that wasn't holding up too well. The 2006 was much better at the beginning of it's release run (we sold a ton of it) than at the end. In both cases, the fruit basically dried up. I believe this is due to partial carbonic treatment. I think that it is basically a wine for near term drinking in general, unless they change someting. And for me, the 2007 is sporting a level of oak that is immediately apparent, and also annoying. I do not predict a future where that oak will integrate.
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Good to know about the oak treatment on the 07.

How 'short term' are you talking about? When I had the 2004 (their inagural vintage) about 2 years ago, although smooth it had enough tannin for aging 5-6 years, but - since the fruit is so delicate - I could see how it might dry out. Perhaps I ought to attack the 05 & 06's soon?!
 
To be honest, I am not aware of an '04. I have not seen a bottle in the States. It is not listed on the website as a vintage of Passopisciaro "Passopisciaro". BUT I have had people refer to things like a 2002 Passopisciaro red that they had in Italy, and so on. I think that previous to '05, it is possible that the grapes that now go into "Franchetti," that is to say, Petit Verdot and Cesanese d'Affile, were being blended with Nerello to make a wine that was red.

The situation is all a bit cloudy in terms of what is what, and not helped by the website for the winery.

I don't think Passopisciaro "Passopisciaro" is a wine that benefits from ageing 5-6 years. I haven't had much success ageing Terre Nere, either.

I think it is a mistake to say, well, this tastes like Pinot Noir, so I am going to give it the time in the cellar that I would give a good Pinot.

Nerello Mascalese is prone to early oxidation, as a grape variety. Also, there is the use of partial carbonic.
 
Nerello Mascalese is prone to early oxidation, as a grape variety. Also, there is the use of partial carbonic.
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That's what I'm afraid of, but I love the aromatics and body of both nerello's (mascalese and capuccio) and am willing to dedicate some to science, since it is doubtful I'll be traveling to Sicily anytime soon to share in the producer's cellars.

Do you think the Don Peppino (Terre Nera) has anymore staying power than the lower bottlings? If early oxidation is a grape characteristic, then how would prephylloxera vines help it?
 
I agree with Levi here about the 07 Passopisciaro, the 06, which we still have supply of is drinking much better when i compared it to the 07 recently. I didnt like the level of oak on the 07. I surmise it is a cycle with the barrels as i have seen this happen with other Franchetti wines (espeically the Cupole). I am hoping the oak integrates but also have my fears it wont. The 07 Terre Nere's are def. the best in my experience. Compared to the 06 Prephylloxera the 07 is miles better and i think that it was drinking very well now (given its old vines and really soave texture, but i do believe that it will age well). As for the 06 i think that it might never loosen up. We'll see.
 
originally posted by MarkS:

Do you think the Don Peppino (Terre Nera) has anymore staying power than the lower bottlings? If early oxidation is a grape characteristic, then how would prephylloxera vines help it?
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I think the '06 Don Peppino was/is reductive, and may never really come together. I think the '07 is a much more harmonious wine that probably needs some time, but I wouldn't start talking about 5-6 years just yet. There is a big question mark over the ageability of Terre Nere for me, because the track record isn't so good for ageing in my experience, but then they are also introducing new bottlings and making better wines in '07.
 
Last night we drank our first Chateau Thivin Cuvée Zaccharie (a 2016) and it was splendid. Surprised to find that there is only one mention of this wine here in the bored. Aromatically it was unexceptional, with smoky, cherry-oriented red fruit with a pinch of lactic, but the mouth was gadzooks level vibrant. Really lovely molasses-inspired sweetness with a perfectly countervailing acidic backbone. The agriculture seems to have made significant strides during the most recent five year plan.
 
There has been a bit of very positive talk recently at Berserkers about Thivin from folks with decent palates. Both the entry level and fancier curves. It got me curious. I’m torn between curiosity as to wines I really don’t know and a sneaking feeling my resources are better allocated, if at all, to Jura and Poulsard. That’s where my thoughts go. That tension was poked by an offer this morning from Gordon’s on the Cuvees Godefroy and Zaccharie. The wines are still reasonably priced. Any further thoughts on Thivin here, where I trust folks’ palates a bit more? (Maybe it’s a bit curmudgeonly, but I’m simultaneously curious and not too keen anymore on expanding my allocation of Gamay $$ beyond Desvignes, Coudert, and Guillot.)
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
There has been a bit of very positive talk recently at Berserkers about Thivin from folks with decent palates. Both the entry level and fancier curves. It got me curious. I’m torn between curiosity as to wines I really don’t know and a sneaking feeling my resources are better allocated, if at all, to Jura and Poulsard. That’s where my thoughts go. That tension was poked by an offer this morning from Gordon’s on the Cuvees Godefroy and Zaccharie. The wines are still reasonably priced. Any further thoughts on Thivin here, where I trust folks’ palates a bit more? (Maybe it’s a bit curmudgeonly, but I’m simultaneously curious and not too keen anymore on expanding my allocation of Gamay $$ beyond Desvignes, Coudert, and Guillot.)
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I don't feel the need anymore to chase specific Beaujolais outside of my own market. So many excellent and interchangeable wines are available now. I had the Brouilly Reverdon recently and wasn't all that impressed. Different thing, I realize, but just reaffirmed my suspicion that there were lots of top Gamay floating around. My favorite recent one was Lapalu Côte de Brouilly. If that runs out, there is always something else.

I've also seemed to hit a wall in my understanding of Coudert. I just can't figure out the right time to open them anymore. It's really frustrating because this was such a foundational wine for me for many years.
 
originally posted by VLM:


I've also seemed to hit a wall in my understanding of Coudert. I just can't figure out the right time to open them anymore. It's really frustrating because this was such a foundational wine for me for many years.
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This.
Best, jim
 
Maybe folks should converge on NY later in the year, for a Coudert-a-thon, as Brad would style it. We can figure out what’s drinking and how in a way that’s hard to do when opening one at a time. I’m guessing this crew could put together a nifty, fun vertical (and horizontal).
 
Hey, the CDC-sponsored jeebs are now officially sanctioned. You sign up when you get the vaccine, noting which wines you plan to bring.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Maybe folks should converge on NY later in the year, for a Coudert-a-thon, as Brad would style it. We can figure out what’s drinking and how in a way that’s hard to do when opening one at a time. I’m guessing this crew could put together a nifty, fun vertical (and horizontal).
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It needs to be done. It would work better in NC, but maybe DC is the happy medium... You can wear your animal pelts.
 
Certainly DC would make it easier for me. But I think we'll have a hard time keeping it to just a Coudert-a-thon. There are so many other wines to share if people are making a trip.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
Certainly DC would make it easier for me. But I think we'll have a hard time keeping it to just a Coudert-a-thon. There are so many other wines to share if people are making a trip.
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And we haven't even talked about Southern Jeeb yet...

I have to be in Baltimore July 24th for a pandemic delayed funeral, that might make a good weekend and everyone should be vaccinated by that point.

I'd make it a long weekend, plenty of PTO that needs using.
 
Well, DC is obviously easy for me and I am vaccinated. I am also hoping to get to NY for our, sadly missed last year, Fall Jeebus. So either way works.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Well, DC is obviously easy for me and I am vaccinated. I am also hoping to get to NY for our, sadly missed last year, Fall Jeebus. So either way works.
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They don't need to be mutually exclusive. I foresee many jeebi in my future.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Well, DC is obviously easy for me and I am vaccinated. I am also hoping to get to NY for our, sadly missed last year, Fall Jeebus. So either way works.
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They don't need to be mutually exclusive. I foresee many jeebi in my future.
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Works for me.
 
I’ll be fully vaccinated by next week, and I have Coudert going back to the ‘09 vintage (and a magnum of the ‘14 Tardive). I’m game.

Mark Lipton
 
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