TN: A stellar evening with the Kesslers at Chateauneuf-du-Joe.

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by SFJoe:
My recollection is that it has a derivation from a Nahuatl word meaning ground or mashed or some such, but I'm a little vague on it.
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Actually, just "sauce."
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You speak Nahuatl too? Dang!
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by SFJoe:
PS--most moles (there are many) don't have chocolate.

Mole Poblano (i.e., the mole of the city of Puebla) has chocolate and also has the best PR agency, so it's the one you most often hear about.
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i always thought that it meant chocolate. what then is the definition of a 'mole'?
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Well, you know, there's "guacamole" too.... Not kidding, it's the same word.

My recollection is that it has a derivation from a Nahuatl word meaning ground or mashed or some such, but I'm a little vague on it.

But there are yellow, green, red, black, and other colors of mole, moles with different nuts, chiles, spices, and so on. Many of them have little resemblance to each other.
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Yes, as Sharon said it's Nahuatl for sauce. Oaxaca, as you well know, is a fecund source of culinary stimulation, since not only that panoply of moles emanates from there, but so many other yummy things. And, as usual, Kane is wrong.

Mark Lipton
 
As a friend in the know said, "Mexico is one of the most biodiverse countries in the world, and Oaxaca is the most biodiverse state in Mexico." That biodiversity extends to lingustics (12 or 14 extant languages) and moles.
 
My boss Norberto Garita offers two moles. Mole Poblano and Mole Pipian.

The latter is green, made with pumpkin seeds, jalapenos and tomatillos. I'm experimenting with pairings. Ideas? I'm thinking aged Styrian Sauvignon, or maybe 2007 Chateau Fontaine Pinot Gris. Something with an low earthy dimension I think.

The former is a bit sweeter than other moles Poblano I've tried (the authenticity of this one is assured). It contains dried chiles, tomatillo, anise, bread, banana, chocolate and other things. What wine? I can't get my hands on 1983 Chave. Should I be summoning samples of other northern Rhones?
 
originally posted by Putnam Weekley:
My boss Norberto Garita offers two moles. Mole Poblano and Mole Pipian.

The latter is green, made with pumpkin seeds, jalapenos and tomatillos. I'm experimenting with pairings. Ideas? I'm thinking aged Styrian Sauvignon, or maybe 2007 Chateau Fontaine Pinot Gris. Something with an low earthy dimension I think.

The former is a bit sweeter than other moles Poblano I've tried (the authenticity of this one is assured). It contains dried chiles, tomatillo, anise, bread, banana, chocolate and other things. What wine? I can't get my hands on 1983 Chave. Should I be summoning samples of other northern Rhones?
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The pumpkin seed thing is fun. Just as an FYI, the dark fancy Austrian seeds make a pretty sauce, but the seeds have too high an oil content and the sauce is clunky. Stick to cheaper seeds.

Does he call his Pipian (aka Pepian) a mole? It makes me wonder if he's making a different dish. The one I've made is relatively simple: Jalapenos, pumpkin seeds, cloves, allspice, oregano, garlic, chicken stock, epazote. But no dried chiles, no other nuts.

I've been poking around my cookbooks and am unable to come up with a consistent definition. Something like an almendrado looks an awful lot like a mole, but isn't called that. I have no idea why not.

The Styrian sauvignon is an interesting idea.

I looked up the last time I served it to visiting vignerons, and I think I served old Coche-Dury. Maybe not the ticket for your restaurant. I hesitate to mention it, but old Vouvray has plenty of the earthy thing happening. So does pineau d'aunis. Can you get Heredia's old vines? That would be fun, and the peppery thing might match too. The sauce is rich enough that it might shelter the tongue some from the conflict between the tannins and the jalapeno.

Keep us posted, it's a fun project.
 
Diana Kennedy has a recipe for "mole verde de pepita."

So go figure.

Brad, if you post the ingredients, I'll approximate a recipe.
 
For what? Diana Kennedy's recipe? Folks can't google?

How about you recreate what you did? Here's what you told me you used. How about a step by step process?

3 medium sized tomatoes
2 tomatillos
2 cloves garlic
1 medium onion
1 clove
2 allspice berries
1 dried pasilla oaxaquea chili pepper
1 dried chilcostle chili pepper
1 dried chilhuacle rojo chili pepper
black currant jelly (how much?)
1 tablespoon porcini powder
1 tablespoon molasses
salt & pepper
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:
For what? Diana Kennedy's recipe? Folks can't google?

How about you recreate what you did? Here's what you told me you used. How about a step by step process?

3 medium sized tomatoes
2 tomatillos
2 cloves garlic
1 medium onion
1 clove
2 allspice berries
1 dried pasilla oaxaquea chili pepper
1 dried chilcostle chili pepper
1 dried chilhuacle rojo chili pepper
black currant jelly (how much?)
1 tablespoon porcini powder
1 tablespoon molasses
salt & pepper
lard
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No, I wanted this list, thanks.

The tomatoes might have been smaller than medium.

Heat a dry cast iron pan over a medium flame. Put the tomatoes, destemmed tomatillos without their papery skins, garlic still in skins, and 1/2" slices of onion on the pan, turning regularly. Use your comal if you prefer. The tomato and tomatillo will char, the garlic will brown here and there, softening, and the onion become translucent. Put the peppers on as well, turning after a few seconds and removing. Ditch stems & seeds from peppers, put in bowl and cover with boiling water.

Clove and allspice go on the pan for a brief bit, turning once. Grind in mortar, put in blender.

Put tomatillos and onions in blender. Skin garlic and tomatoes, put the latter through food mill if you like, add to blender.

Add 2 tablespoons black currant jelly (could also have puffed currants in lard), 1 tablespoon molasses, one tablespoon powdered dry porcini, half teaspoon or more salt. I don't think I actually added pepper.

Puree very thoroughly, a couple of minutes on high. If you need a bit more liquid to get started, use some of the chili soaking water.

Reheat the cast iron pan to medium-low. Add a teaspoon of lard, and then the blended mixture. Cook for 15-20 minutes, stirring regularly, until thick and shiny.

That's about it. I had something along these lines in mind, but the jelly and porcini powder were an adaptation to the news that the Hermitage was joining us.
 
Joe,
Do you put the dried chili peppers with their skins into the blender?
Last time I made red chili from dried New Mexican peppers I toasted the peppers, then put them in the boiling water to soak, then ended up scraping the inside of the skins to get the pepper off the skin and into the chili paste. I didn't want the paper texture of the skins in the final chili. I guess if it blends into small enough pieces it won't matter.
 
originally posted by Marc D:
I guess if it blends into small enough pieces it won't matter.
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This is my view.

If you don't want them in, you can put the whole mixture through a fine food mill after.

The chilcostle and chilhuacle rojo peppers are so thin-skinned that there isn't much to scrape.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Marc D:
I guess if it blends into small enough pieces it won't matter.
Click to expand...

This is my view.

If you don't want them in, you can put the whole mixture through a fine food mill after.

The chilcostle and chilhuacle rojo peppers are so thin-skinned that there isn't much to scrape.
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Marc: like Joe, I just puree the rehydrated, toasted red peppers. Texture issues have never arisen in this process.

Joe: Pipin verde seems to be often considered synonymous with mole verde by US writers. Like you, I have always understood them to be distinct categories, so have been bemused by this conflation. Go figger.

Mark Lipton

p.s. For pairing with a pipin verde, I'd go with a substantial white wine with some earthiness and a touch of RS. Is there an orange wine that's qualify?
 
originally posted by MLipton:
For pairing with a pipin verde, I'd go with a substantial white wine with some earthiness and a touch of RS. Is there an orange wine that's qualify?
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Hmmmm. Camilo Donati malvasia frizzante?

If mine had shown up, I'd try the combo with frozen leftovers. But I'm still holding out.
 
p.s. For pairing with a pipin verde, I'd go with a substantial white wine with some earthiness and a touch of RS. Is there an orange wine that's qualify?
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2006 Tue-Boeuf Petit Bouisson? (sp?) Or maybe that's too much RS.

Now I'm more confused. When he first opened in 2006 Norberto called it "mole pipian" - I think. Now it's listed simply as "Pipian." Maybe I didn't read carefully enough, but I still don't know what would be the difference between mole pipian and pepian verde.

SfJoe - if only I could touch those wines, then there would be the problem of selling them ... maybe I can score some old vouvray.

I had a great night tonight. I hope you did too!
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Brad Kane:
For what? Diana Kennedy's recipe? Folks can't google?

How about you recreate what you did? Here's what you told me you used. How about a step by step process?

3 medium sized tomatoes
2 tomatillos
2 cloves garlic
1 medium onion
1 clove
2 allspice berries
1 dried pasilla oaxaquea chili pepper
1 dried chilcostle chili pepper
1 dried chilhuacle rojo chili pepper
black currant jelly (how much?)
1 tablespoon porcini powder
1 tablespoon molasses
salt & pepper
lard
Click to expand...

No, I wanted this list, thanks.

The tomatoes might have been smaller than medium.

Heat a dry cast iron pan over a medium flame. Put the tomatoes, destemmed tomatillos without their papery skins, garlic still in skins, and 1/2" slices of onion on the pan, turning regularly. Use your comal if you prefer. The tomato and tomatillo will char, the garlic will brown here and there, softening, and the onion become translucent. Put the peppers on as well, turning after a few seconds and removing. Ditch stems & seeds from peppers, put in bowl and cover with boiling water.

Clove and allspice go on the pan for a brief bit, turning once. Grind in mortar, put in blender.

Put tomatillos and onions in blender. Skin garlic and tomatoes, put the latter through food mill if you like, add to blender.

Add 2 tablespoons black currant jelly (could also have puffed currants in lard), 1 tablespoon molasses, one tablespoon powdered dry porcini, half teaspoon or more salt. I don't think I actually added pepper.

Puree very thoroughly, a couple of minutes on high. If you need a bit more liquid to get started, use some of the chili soaking water.

Reheat the cast iron pan to medium-low. Add a teaspoon of lard, and then the blended mixture. Cook for 15-20 minutes, stirring regularly, until thick and shiny.

That's about it. I had something along these lines in mind, but the jelly and porcini powder were an adaptation to the news that the Hermitage was joining us.
Click to expand...

I liked it better when food just magically appeared. Where's the mystery? The romance?
 
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