That mean man is at it again

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Again, I am in no way suggesting that the list at SD be changed. I'm the last one to suggest drinking CA wine, wherever one may be.

But, as I understood the critique, it is not just that Mark was choosing foreign wines. Rather, it was that Mark was trumpeting the list as one that went well with the cuisine because of low alcohol and high acid and these folks were saying that such options existed in CA, despite the stereotype. So the point is not that Mark needs to change his list to please the CA folks but that people who claim that the only place to find these wines is in Europe are wrong. Which seems like a reasonable critique to me.

Although I still buy over 96.382% European wine.
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Low and alcohol and high acid do not guarantee high quality, nuanced flavors, and good value for the money. Within the parameters some discernment is perhaps required.
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Agree, but the acidity is needed for certain fatty food pairings, just as tannin and protein have reactions as well.

It gets difficult to find an appropriate pairing for me when I want high acidity and a little residual sugar - for instance, something German riesling satisfies very well, but I have no other domestic option.

Many wines from the Cote d'Or can pair with food in ways that I cannot domestically.

...I like acid, and even sparkling wine, as mentioned in this thread, is difficult to find domestically with high acid...I would really like to locate such a thing...
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Levi Dalton: Within the parameters some discernment is perhaps required.
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Who said anything about randomly choosing low alcohol high acid wines.
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No one.

A lot has been said about giving extra favor and attention to wines from one geographic location, however. My point (you may have missed it, as you did not quote the pertinent portion of my post) was that the wines from that place, produced in the style desired, may not be competitive with those from around the world on a quality level relative to pricing.

The Mr. Ellenbogen is not buying wines solely for his own curiosity. He is buying them for resale to other people. With that in mind, it is disingenuous to represent to a customer a wine he does not think is of high quality for the money asked.
 
originally posted by VS:
originally posted by mlawton:
And I find it very annoying that at restaurants in Europe, I always get my white wine in an ice bucket. I thought it was because they pegged me as an American who wouldn't know any better and liked my white wine to taste like tap water.
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See, this confirms my worst suspicions: that over here we're just total hicks wine-wise, what with our pretentious Riedel, Spiegelau and Schott-Zwiesel glasses even in local taverns.

Then again, maybe bringing the ice bucket along automatically and then letting you decide what you want to do with it is just one of those quaint remnants of service from a bygone era in European restaurants...
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Victor,

you have me musing about memorable meals in fancy European establishments that whisk the bottle of white off the table to a distant ice bucket, from where I see the wine beckoning me as I contemplate my empty glass....

Of course, those weren't in the forlorn southwest corner of the continent (FSWCE?), where no doubt wages are so depressed that there are plenty of staff to shuttle bottles back to tables. If they can rouse themselves from their backwater stupors, of course.
 
We are a lot more modest here. Buckets are placed right beside your table, and waiters have learned to ask if the customer wants the wine in them. Only when a red wine is ordered, the ice bucket isn't automatically produced. And, lo and behold, almost no waiter flinches any more, in the forlorn corner, when an ice bucket is requested for the red wine. Then, no one reprimands you if you yourself take the bottle out or put it back in.

I tell you: total hicks.
 
Such hicks that they didn't always pour the wine for me. They frequently put it on the table and let me pour it myself, when I wanted (or didn't). I was shocked. This behavior can't be tolerated.

That said, I do understand Joe's point. At the FSWCE Temples™ of our recent acquaintance, other than Arzak, wines were invisible without craning and turning our necks to regard the room's other furniture. Thankfully, there were no temperature issues. But it was not so at...just to pull an example out of the hat...Troisgros, a bunch of years ago. Empty glasses, overchilled/overoaked/goopy Condrieu from Sharon's favorite producer of same in a chilly bucket, nothing to do but get up from the table, send every waiter in the room into a twitching fit, grab the bottle, and take over. Then again, I suppose it was better over-chilled and unconsumed, so maybe I should thank them.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:

Victor,

you have me musing about memorable meals in fancy European establishments that whisk the bottle of white off the table to a distant ice bucket, from where I see the wine beckoning me as I contemplate my empty glass....
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This has been my experience as well, you get to sit there and watch your wine become a quiescently frozen confection over in the corner while you (and your empty glass) patiently contemplate how nicely it would go with the food in front of you.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton: My point (you may have missed it, as you did not quote the pertinent portion of my post) was that the wines from that place, produced in the style desired, may not be competitive with those from around the world on a quality level relative to pricing..
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Ok, I did miss where you made that point. And it is a fine one.

But again, while that may be the sterotype about CA wine, the examples Christian mentions above all retail for less than $20 (or even less than $10).
 
originally posted by Thor:
FSWCE Temples
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We common hicks in the forlorn corner never go to those highfalutin Temples (except one: Can Roca) when we want to be serious about wine. We go to normal places where they know and care about wine. Just as I have always taken it for granted that SD cares about wine. In those places (Viridiana, Asturianos, Laredo, Bodega Cigalea...) ice buckets are a useful tool and are never tucked away far from sight.
 
Well, sometimes we tourists want to be serious about food, instead. A failing, I'm sure. But I, at least, don't always require both. (Good thing, in some cases. No names.)
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Levi Dalton: My point (you may have missed it, as you did not quote the pertinent portion of my post) was that the wines from that place, produced in the style desired, may not be competitive with those from around the world on a quality level relative to pricing..
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Ok, I did miss where you made that point. And it is a fine one.

But again, while that may be the sterotype about CA wine, the examples Christian mentions above all retail for less than $20 (or even less than $10).
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This is a fair response, however I would note that after spending some time on winesearcher, I was unable to locate any of the wines Christian named for less than $10. None of them.

I'd be curious to try any of them, as I am ignorant of all of them, and see what kind of nuance and character they offer.

And I appreciate their being made known to me.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:

This is a fair response, however I would note that after spending some time on winesearcher, I was unable to locate any of the wines Christian named for less than $10. None of them.

I'd be curious to try any of them, as I am ignorant of all of them, and see what kind of nuance and character they offer.

And I appreciate their being made known to me.
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Fair enough.

I should reiterate that I am also ignorant of these particular wines and am the furthest thing from a CA Wine Booster. But at the risk of being argumentative, I just thought there was something to the argument that was not getting sufficient attention here.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:

I should reiterate that I am also ignorant of these particular wines and am the furthest thing from a CA Wine Booster. But at the risk of being argumentative, I just thought there was something to the argument that was not getting sufficient attention here.
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i've "tried" several of the wines on the list. i would dearly like to drink local wine. sometimes hope gets the better of me. the worst were shitty, the best boring.

glug glug glug went the fatsink.

the irony, of course, is that pacific rim blend 10% german riesling into their dry riesling. it did not help.

fb.
 
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