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Loire 2005 at the tgjp
- Thread starter pab
- Start date
Jeff Connell
Jeff Connell
I love these "real facts". Especially when you are the only one who knows. I don't think Stephane Cossais knows this one.There is the good question. What is the most important : terroir or vigneron ? Who can say that terroir of Vouvray is superior than terroir of Montlouis ?
There is real fact : Montlouis move, Vouvray sleep.
Best regards
pierre-alain
meilleurs voeux
Jeff
Too bad about that sucky '21 Bredif I had a couple of months ago. Ever had a good bottle of '47 Haut Lieu, pab? I found it a life-changing bottle.originally posted by pab:
But since ten years, I drank Huet, Foreau, Pinon, I never drank a whaouuu bottle.
The last time I spoke to M. Hwang, he was talking about long-term plans in Vouvray, and they did not involve sales.
Joe Dressner
Joe Dressner
It's dja v all over again!
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
It's dja v all over again!
Chris Coad
Chris Coad
Don't worry, pab, I got much the same reaction from some of the folks here when I told them "Clarksburg moves, Vouvray sleeps" two years ago. They have too much invested in their sacred cows to sense the winds of change blowing from Yolo County.
Huet? Foreau? Please. Why look to tired old world models when Dry Creek and Vinum and Baron Herzog are throwing off the calcification of ages past and blazing a trail to a future that realizes the true potential of chenin blanc? It's a fact. A real, true fact.
Time will tell, my hidebound friends, time will tell.
Huet? Foreau? Please. Why look to tired old world models when Dry Creek and Vinum and Baron Herzog are throwing off the calcification of ages past and blazing a trail to a future that realizes the true potential of chenin blanc? It's a fact. A real, true fact.
Time will tell, my hidebound friends, time will tell.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Thus spake Chris Coad CWWGFTI™
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Oui... mais on aimerait plutt savoir pourquoi tu dis que le vouvray, c'est plus un mythe qu'une ralit, quand mme... et que nous, on aura le fin mot de l'histoire en 5 ans ! Pauvres Amricains de nous.
[Restating SFJoe's question.]
See, I told everybody Sharon would come in useful around here. Well, that was in another country, but at least the wench isn't dead.
You must be really running out of luck if you haven't had a good Huet or Foreau in the last 10 years.originally posted by pab:
Vouvray is a sleeping AOC : no wanabee, no rebirth... Everybody told you : "It's a marvelous terroir !". But since ten years, I drank Huet, Foreau, Pinon, I never drank a whaouuu bottle. Montlouis mouve (Saumon, Cossais & Preiskopf), Vouvray still sleep.
Don't play the horses
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
See, I told everybody Sharon would come in useful around here. Well, that was in another country, but at least the wench isn't dead.
Though 'tis pity she's a whore.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
See, I told everybody Sharon would come in useful around here. Well, that was in another country, but at least the wench isn't dead.
Though 'tis pity she's a whore.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Someone smite him, quick. Politburo? Haul out the truncheons.
Yo, pab, you ain't persuasive. More work, more data required than this to push us off our views.originally posted by pab:
originally posted by SFJoe:
For the impatient fans who don't want to wait 5 years, could you tell us a bit more about what you mean by "mythe?"originally posted by pab:
Vouvray is closer to a mythe (born in the middle of the XIX century) than a reality. In 3 or 5 years, US fan will understand...
Vouvray is a sleeping AOC : no wanabee, no rebirth... Everybody told you : "It's a marvelous terroir !". But since ten years, I drank Huet, Foreau, Pinon, I never drank a whaouuu bottle. Montlouis mouve (Saumon, Cossais & Preiskopf), Vouvray still sleep. People say in Vouvray than Hwang won't keep the estate.
Best regards.
pierre-alain benoit
Particularly since you haven't been tasting enough.
J
Joe,
You have to dive into french amateurs psychology, to understand pab arguments :
They know because their DNA shows genes yours won't ever get. No need for work and datas.
French expression would be something like "lgitimit lie la naissance sur le sol franais". (Sharon devrait savoir traduire)
So you have to accept the fact that Vouvray is shit and Montlouis the next big thing.
One of these guys told me once, years ago, that Brezeme was to northern rhone appellations what solutr or vergisson was to Pouilly Fuiss : a shame that should remove from the dcret.
This very wellknown french amateur had never heard of Pouchoulin and only tasted wines from Lombard from the early 80s. And his main data about Solutr and Vergisson was from tasting negociants wines from Cte d'Or and a few average local vignerons. No interest for Barraud, Rey, Guffens or Saumaize.
His Highness knew. Period.
US amateurs should stick having opinions about zinfandel...
You have to dive into french amateurs psychology, to understand pab arguments :
They know because their DNA shows genes yours won't ever get. No need for work and datas.
French expression would be something like "lgitimit lie la naissance sur le sol franais". (Sharon devrait savoir traduire)
So you have to accept the fact that Vouvray is shit and Montlouis the next big thing.
One of these guys told me once, years ago, that Brezeme was to northern rhone appellations what solutr or vergisson was to Pouilly Fuiss : a shame that should remove from the dcret.
This very wellknown french amateur had never heard of Pouchoulin and only tasted wines from Lombard from the early 80s. And his main data about Solutr and Vergisson was from tasting negociants wines from Cte d'Or and a few average local vignerons. No interest for Barraud, Rey, Guffens or Saumaize.
His Highness knew. Period.
US amateurs should stick having opinions about zinfandel...
Truer words have never been spoken.originally posted by Brzme:
US amateurs should stick having opinions about zinfandel...
OK, thanks, back to my cave now.originally posted by Brzme:
GeneticsJoe,
US amateurs should stick having opinions about zinfandel...
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Someone smite him, quick. Politburo? Haul out the truncheons.
You'll have to smite Hamlet.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
I think people should cut Pab some slack. Sure, he seems to think that his views have, as Eric says, a legitimacy coming from having been born on French soil. And sure, he doesn't much defend them and is basically making pronunciamentos (which are to pronouncements what generalissimo's are to generals). But isn't making pronunciamentos business as usual around here? And surely, in a board devoted to macho pedantry, we ought to give some form of points for someone trying to out-macho the pedants, even if with insufficient pedantry. Data points! Feh!