Steve Guattery
Steve Guattery
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Terroir story - oh my...
- Thread starter Mark Davis
- Start date
Foam?
Carl Steefel
Carl Steefel
The microbes certainly aid in the dissolution of the clays etc, but in doing so, they convert them back to the basic constituents of (e.g.) sodium, magnesium, calcium, aluminum and silica. But it would be true that this is one of the mechanisms by which the pore water in the soil comes up with such elements as aluminum, which are otherwise not available in rainwater...originally posted by The Wine Mule:
As promised, I have tried, with heroic efforts at translation by my wife, to get the gist of Claude Bourguignon's comments, which appear in the link first posted by VS. As best I can determine, and I can practically guarantee some of this is incorrect, and I urge any Francophones to read him and correct me, Bourguignon's research consists of showing the role that microbes play in the transmission of nutrients from clay to vine. The role of microbes is to make the metal and salt nutrients that exist in clay soluable and thus available to the vine. He says this is an extremely complicated process. He compares layers of soil to layers of skin, and talks about crowds of microbes migrating between upper and lower layers. My translator and I got a bit lost trying to follow his imagery.
He also has some very dire comments about how microbe-rich soil is dying everywhere.
For anyone's convenience, here's the link again. You have to scroll up a bit to begin reading. It's not a paper, it's an interview.
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terreaterre.ww7.be
And please: I am not well-grounded in geology, chemistry, or microbiology. Or French! I'm just a curious schnook trying to understand something about terroir.
Even with the microbes, the rates of clay dissolution are very slow, but in dead end pores, the aluminum and silicon and other cation concentrations can certainly rise. As a result, the plant roots are going to encounter different soil chemistry than they would if the microbes were not there...
Isn't it as simple as, if terroir was not a reality, then couldn't good wine be made from grapes grown anywhere?
Not only is terroir a factor in the unique distinctive character of a wine, but more broadly isn't terroir part of defining sites for wine grape growing itself?
meta-roir?
Not only is terroir a factor in the unique distinctive character of a wine, but more broadly isn't terroir part of defining sites for wine grape growing itself?
meta-roir?
The Wine Mule
Dave Erickson
originally posted by Thor:
You know, fuck it. It was 77 today with an endless expanse of blue sky, from the tippy-top of the weather station at Jare above Iroulguy to the farthest horizon of the Atlantic from our apartment in Biarritz. Tomorrow, I'll fight the fight against this pernicious error again. But today, I'm enjoying my Hours "Urolat" 2007 Juranon, having just watched the sun set over the last surfers paddling through said Atlantic just below the window, and looking forward to (among other things) a cpe the size of my head* lathered in butter. As you can see, the required dudgeon is difficult to dredge, just now.Eek!!! Thor alert, Thor alertvarietal...
Anyway, yeah. "Variety."
* (Yes, yes, Larry, I know.)
Oh, great. Tell me you're staying on the Avenue Beaurivage...
Carl Steefel
Carl Steefel
Seems like we went through this varietal/variety discussion on another Board...originally posted by Thor:
You know, fuck it. It was 77 today with an endless expanse of blue sky, from the tippy-top of the weather station at Jare above Iroulguy to the farthest horizon of the Atlantic from our apartment in Biarritz. Tomorrow, I'll fight the fight against this pernicious error again. But today, I'm enjoying my Hours "Urolat" 2007 Juranon, having just watched the sun set over the last surfers paddling through said Atlantic just below the window, and looking forward to (among other things) a cpe the size of my head* lathered in butter. As you can see, the required dudgeon is difficult to dredge, just now.Eek!!! Thor alert, Thor alertvarietal...
Anyway, yeah. "Variety."
* (Yes, yes, Larry, I know.)
And I recall at the time that I said "well, you learn something new every day...", but apparently not so, since I have reverted to the same mistake of yesteryear...
Oh, no, no. Absolutely not. That's must be ten or twelve feet from here.Oh, great. Tell me you're staying on the Avenue Beaurivage...
Carl, bad role models are everywhere.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Carl Steefel:
Seems like we went through this varietal/variety discussion on another Board...originally posted by Thor:
You know, fuck it. It was 77 today with an endless expanse of blue sky, from the tippy-top of the weather station at Jare above Iroulguy to the farthest horizon of the Atlantic from our apartment in Biarritz. Tomorrow, I'll fight the fight against this pernicious error again. But today, I'm enjoying my Hours "Urolat" 2007 Juranon, having just watched the sun set over the last surfers paddling through said Atlantic just below the window, and looking forward to (among other things) a cpe the size of my head* lathered in butter. As you can see, the required dudgeon is difficult to dredge, just now.Eek!!! Thor alert, Thor alertvarietal...
Anyway, yeah. "Variety."
* (Yes, yes, Larry, I know.)
And I recall at the time that I said "well, you learn something new every day...", but apparently not so, since I have reverted to the same mistake of yesteryear...
We're much pickier about nitpicky things on this board. Big things, not so much.
Carl Steefel
Carl Steefel
Can't blame it on role models, I don't think I have any...originally posted by Thor:
Oh, no, no. Absolutely not. That's must be ten or twelve feet from here.Oh, great. Tell me you're staying on the Avenue Beaurivage...
Carl, bad role models are everywhere.
Maybe on Alzheimers??
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Plotnicki (sp?) and Rovanni (sp?) had a long and funny argument on this topic a few years ago, which culminated in the latter's canceling the formers WA subscription. It must still be out there in cyberspace somewhere.
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Plotnicki (sp?) and Rovanni (sp?) had a long and funny argument on this topic a few years ago, which culminated in the latter's canceling the formers WA subscription. It must still be out there in cyberspace somewhere.
That was Plotnicki's peak as a WIWP. He wound Rovani into knots on that one. It was just beautiful to watch.
The amazing thing is that Dressner did the same thing to Plotnicki on Steve's own board about two weeks later. Same rhetorical technique, same tail-chasing madness, no self-awareness at all on the victim's part. Steve bounced Joe off the board after.
Karen Goetz
Karen Goetz
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by slaton:
originally posted by Mark Davis:
"I am not saying that chemistry and geology have no effect on the wine. It may have effects that we don't understand," said geologist Alex Maltman.originally posted by Karen Goetz:
There exists a very big difference between that which is not yet known and that which is proven to be untrue.
As we know,
There are known knowns,
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we dont know we dont know.
Oh this makes me so nostalgic. Doonesbury was better in those days. Ok, most everything else wasn't, but Doonesbury was. Of course, Doonesbury was even better during Watergate. I miss that too.
Wow. I think I agree. I'd like to see an episode take place with everyone's feet in the duff of some grand cru vignoble.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Plotnicki (sp?) and Rovanni (sp?) had a long and funny argument on this topic a few years ago, which culminated in the latter's canceling the formers WA subscription. It must still be out there in cyberspace somewhere.
That was Plotnicki's peak as a WIWP. He wound Rovani into knots on that one. It was just beautiful to watch.
The amazing thing is that Dressner did the same thing to Plotnicki on Steve's own board about two weeks later. Same rhetorical technique, same tail-chasing madness, no self-awareness at all on the victim's part. Steve bounced Joe off the board after.
I thought Joe got bounced from the Plotnicki board for offline correspondence. I was on the board at the time--I got bounced shortly thereafter--and remember the discussion of Joe being carried on in echoes. Is the Plotnicki-Rovani one somewhere on the Parker board?
More importantly, is bouncing someone or unsubscribing them now to be considered a standard rhetorical ploy in an argument? Shouldn't we develop a Latin name for it?
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
More importantly, is bouncing someone or unsubscribing them now to be considered a standard rhetorical ploy in an argument? Shouldn't we develop a Latin name for it?
It already has one, no? Deus ex machina, I think it's called.
Mark Lipton
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
More importantly, is bouncing someone or unsubscribing them now to be considered a standard rhetorical ploy in an argument? Shouldn't we develop a Latin name for it?
It already has one, no? Deus ex machina, I think it's called.
Mark Lipton
I will not have a perfectly good literary term degraded by a johnny come lately wine beverage.
How about argument ex lunaticum?
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
originally posted by Thor:
You know, fuck it. It was 77 today with an endless expanse of blue sky, from the tippy-top of the weather station at Jare above Iroulguy to the farthest horizon of the Atlantic from our apartment in Biarritz. Tomorrow, I'll fight the fight against this pernicious error again. But today, I'm enjoying my Hours "Urolat" 2007 Juranon, having just watched the sun set over the last surfers paddling through said Atlantic just below the window, and looking forward to (among other things) a cpe the size of my head* lathered in butter. As you can see, the required dudgeon is difficult to dredge, just now.Eek!!! Thor alert, Thor alertvarietal...
Anyway, yeah. "Variety."
* (Yes, yes, Larry, I know.)
Nice to know you think of me while vacationing in paradise. I'm touched...
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Thor:
If Plotnicki's name isn't in the term, I don't think it's worth the vellum it's printed on.
I'm surprised no one's corrected my ersatz Latin conjugation yet. Where are you Cole?
Anyway, then: argument ex Plotnickus ad Rovanumus.
Zachary Ross
Zachary Ross
Rant et Rovani?
Doug Padgett
Doug Padgett
argumentum ad baculum Plotnickius? Or something. from the rhetorical term meaning an "appeal to force."
I got no Latin. I'm just guessing based on distant school-age experience.
I got no Latin. I'm just guessing based on distant school-age experience.