Personal Chemistry and Personal Taste

I

Ian Fitzsimmons

Ian Fitzsimmons
A gal who runs a coffee roastery about 30 miles west of here from time to time talks to me about her intermittently-changing coffee preferences as a function of her body chemistry pH. The idea is that her pH varies and makes sometimes dark roast, sometimes light taste better. She's smart and able, so I wonder if this is a real phenomenon; if it is, I wonder if it changes what wines taste good to us from one time to another.

Knowledge? Ideas?
 
originally posted by Arjun Mendiratta:
I don't think "body pH" is a well-defined parameter; but I'm willing to be convinced.
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Well, the pH of your blood is a well-defined parameter. And if it changes in a healthy human by more than 10% of a log unit, I'll eat my Ph D degree.

Mark Lipton
 
Ian,
As ephemeral as it sounds, I see no reason to disbelieve her. On many occasions, coffee or wine will taste different to me. Perhaps, its partly that the beverage is physically different at each such occasion. But I can't imagine that me and my environment don't also differ each time.
And then, of course, there's mood and companions and the emotional situation - all of which I suspect have a direct impact on how we perceive coffee or wine.
Its a jungle out there. (As Monkey Boy can tell you.)
Best, Jim
 
i don't know about total body ph (if there is such a thing) but i do know that i can vary the ph of my saliva based on what i eat and drink over the course of a few to several days. just a guess, but it seems likely that with a change in saliva ph, there could be a perceived change in flavors and perhaps mouthfeel as well. would be an interesting experiment to do....if one didn't have to take bottle variation into account.
 
As ephemeral as it sounds, I see no reason to disbelieve her. On many occasions, coffee or wine will taste different to me.
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I have no problem believing that fluctuating body chemistry (not to mention external meteorology) can affect how a wine tastes. I do perhaps have a problem with the pH explanation, given the science. I suspect the answer's more nuanced than just one factor.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
i don't know about total body ph (if there is such a thing) but i do know that i can vary the ph of my saliva based on what i eat and drink over the course of a few to several days. just a guess, but it seems likely that with a change in saliva ph, there could be a perceived change in flavors and perhaps mouthfeel as well. would be an interesting experiment to do....if one didn't have to take bottle variation into account.
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Physiologically speaking, this makes the most sense to me so far. I believe strongly in 'subjectives' like those Thor mentioned, but my acquaintance had something more concrete in mind.

What causes saliva pH to change? This could add a whole new dimension to menu planning.
 
I can't offer "knowledge", too much of that kills good conversation.
I don't know where she got her idea but my idea is that the main factor in perception is the brain not body chemistry. She attributes perceived differences to factors outside her brain. Let's see, the coffee mixes with the saliva, the saliva being slightly different alters the coffee, the altered coffee "tastes" different to the nerve endings which send a different flavor or taste message to her brain. Nah, I think the coffee variations combined with subtle and unconscious mind set and setting differences are the stronger factors influencing perception. In her model the coffee roasts and brews are consistent and her perception is a constant, it is the pH that varies that makes all the difference. Seems like folk science to me.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons: What causes saliva pH to change? This could add a whole new dimension to menu planning.
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i'm no scientist, but i know one can alter their saliva pH by altering one's menu over time....ie weighting it heavily towards alkaline forming or acid forming foods. a simple example is if you ate nothing but steamed and raw vegetables, raw fruit for a week, chances are your saliva pH would be much more alkaline than if you ate greasy burgers and fries for a week. i've done the former before, monitoring my saliva pH throughout the process, so at least in my own case, i know this to be true. i have not tested how things taste before and after doing it however....except that everything tastes better after a hardcore week like that.
 
I agree with Thor. Try measuring atmospheric pressure and humidity as well. I've pretty much given up on drinking some wines in the tropics.

I also agree with Ned.
 
I see above I meant to agree with Jim's 'subjectives,' not Thor's. Oops.

originally posted by Ned Hoey:
I can't offer "knowledge", too much of that kills good conversation.
I don't know where she got her idea but my idea is that the main factor in perception is the brain not body chemistry .... In her model the coffee roasts and brews are consistent and her perception is a constant, it is the pH that varies that makes all the difference ....
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Yes, this would be her 'model,' or conjecture, I would say. Perception is some interaction between the brain and surrounding world, mediated through the sense organs. In this case, saliva sort of crosses the divide between self and environment and, mixing with incoming food and liquid, amends the signals these send along the taste organs.

She knows more about nutrition and food than I do, in any event, so I can't call her ideas folk science.
 
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