Burgundy Query

Y

Yule Kim

Yule Kim
I stopped by a store yesterday for a burgundy tasting, and just wanted to confirm some things.

The tasting started off with a 2007 Puligny, a Chassagne, and Meursaults from Remi Jobard. While some were more fruit-forward than others, I noticed that, as a general matter, they were all very heavy and dry (I think tannic) on the finish. Is this because of new oak or the malolactic fermentation? Is this a general characteristic shared by all white burgundies or just these particular wines?

We then had some 2007 red burgundies from Serafin, Clos des Lambray, and Dugat-Py. The Serafins seemed the most wooded, the Clos des Lambrays the freshest and silkiest (even the Grand Cru), and the Dugat-Pys were like the Incredible Hulk during a 'roid rage. The Gevrey was so in your face I had to drink some water to relieve the palate fatigue and the Pommard's was so big I thought I could still taste and smell it even when I was eating pizza a half-hour later.

Just to confirm, is Serafin very oaked as a general matter? Does Clos des Lambray use less oak? I'm assuming the Dugat-Py uses a lot of new oak, but it was so overwhelming I couldn't really tell.

Thanks
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
Burgundy QueryI stopped by a store yesterday for a burgundy tasting, and just wanted to confirm some things.

The tasting started off with a 2007 Puligny, a Chassagne, and Meursaults from Remi Jobard. While some were more fruit-forward than others, I noticed that, as a general matter, they were all very heavy and dry (I think tannic) on the finish. Is this because of new oak or the malolactic fermentation? Is this a general characteristic shared by all white burgundies or just these particular wines?

We then had some 2007 red burgundies from Serafin, Clos des Lambray, and Dugat-Py. The Serafins seemed the most wooded, the Clos des Lambrays the freshest and silkiest (even the Grand Cru), and the Dugat-Pys were like the Incredible Hulk during a 'roid rage. The Gevrey was so in your face I had to drink some water to relieve the palate fatigue and the Pommard's was so big I thought I could still taste and smell it even when I was eating pizza a half-hour later.

Just to confirm, is Serafin very oaked as a general matter? Does Clos des Lambray use less oak? I'm assuming the Dugat-Py uses a lot of new oak, but it was so overwhelming I couldn't really tell.

Thanks
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Don't see enough of Remi Jobard to comment.

You've got it right on the reds.
 
I tried one of the jobard wines today (meursault porizots?) - made in a reductive style, very pale in color, needed lots of time in glass (even just a tiny pour) for air and warmth, opened into a (very young) stylish wine with more acid than oak. I wouldn't call it heavy or even tannic altho more the latter than the former. Actually I thought it pretty nice for a young white burg altho at the price asked I'm not a buyer. Of course, this bottle had been open for 24 hours - and probably needed every second of that time.

Only tried one red - the lambrays msd premier cru. Didn't notice all that
much oak considering the youth of the wine. What I noticed the most was how grapey and young it was - do you have much experience tasting such young red burgundy? (I'm asking Yule, not Claude.) FWIW, when I tried Serafin's 05 gevrey v.v. about 13 months ago, I didn't find it oaky at all. Of course, it was slightly older than the 07s you tried and that vintage produced wines more able to tolerate oak than 07.

Note that Serafin is no longer being imported by Kacher - now imported by Weygandt. Claude, got any idea of why?
 
I don't actually have too much experience drinking young burgundy, so it was a pretty nice experience trying all them out at one go. And I agree, I thought the Lambrays were the grapiest of the bunch and least oaked, and in my opinion, the type of wine I would normally like to drink. It may be the case that I prefer younger, more energetic wine. But, to be honest, I thought all of the wines (Lambray, Dugat-Py, and even Serafin) were pretty drinkable. Maybe '07 is a young-drinking vintage in the Cote d'Or (similar to Beaujolais)?

But, just between you, me, and the Internet, I actually thought the Dugat-Pys were a lot of fun. Don't know whether I would actually drink them with a meal, but the bewildered look I shared with the guy tasting next to me after drinking the Pommard was priceless.

With respect to Jobard, I think those might have been the first Cote d'Or white burgs I've ever had, so I don't have a real frame of reference to rely on in evaluating their characteristics. So, by heavy, I was comparing them to the whites I normally drink, which tend to be on the lighter, spritzier side of the white spectrum.

Did they have a second tasting last night? It seems like they only had one red and white available for tasting. Or were they leftover from the Friday tasting?
 
originally posted by maureen:

Note that Serafin is no longer being imported by Kacher - now imported by Weygandt. Claude, got any idea of why?
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No. I seem to recall Kacher speaking very fondly of Serafin within the last year or two on eroticparker. OTOH, I think there may have been a change of generations at Serafin fairly recently; if so, perhaps the new generation didn't see eye-to-eye with Bobby.

Another big change of importer is Bonneau-du-Martray leaving Diageo Chateaux & Estates -- after nearly 40 years. West Coast importer now is Chambers & Chambers, NY is Martin Scott and there are a few other local importers around the country. Given what Diageo has done with its Bordeaux portfolio and rumors that it almost did the same with Burgundy, I wonder if we'll see some other changes.
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
Burgundy QueryI stopped by a store yesterday for a burgundy tasting, and just wanted to confirm some things.

The tasting started off with a 2007 Puligny, a Chassagne, and Meursaults from Remi Jobard. While some were more fruit-forward than others, I noticed that, as a general matter, they were all very heavy and dry (I think tannic) on the finish. Is this because of new oak or the malolactic fermentation?
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Haven't had any Jobards for a while, but speaking generally a sense of heaviness could come from very ripe fruit or oak extract. Dryness in the tannic sense in a Chardonnay would come from either skin contact (unlikely is my guess); a very rough destemming and pressing that broke or shredded lots of stems and seeds; or the oak aging. The malolactic might give the impression of extra body, but normally makes the wine seem smoother and less tart (or even less dry) as malic acid is replaced with lactic acid.
 
Christian are you describing remy jobard 0r the jobard kermit imports? Not sure this wine saw malolactic.

Yule, they were not tasting the burgs on saturday - but I declined the chocolates they were tasting and badgered todd (store manager) into finding some open bottles in the fridge and pouring me a taste before I went to the movies ("An Education" - quite entertaining).

and don't worry - I won't tell any of those oak and fruit adverse yahoos who post on wine disorder that you now love dugat-py! It's our secret!
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Another big change of importer is Bonneau-du-Martray leaving Diageo Chateaux & Estates -- after nearly 40 years. West Coast importer now is Chambers & Chambers, NY is Martin Scott and there are a few other local importers around the country. Given what Diageo has done with its Bordeaux portfolio and rumors that it almost did the same with Burgundy, I wonder if we'll see some other changes.
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WOW. That is really interesting.
 
I don't know. The '07 Dugat-Pys seemed pretty drinkable. Actually none of them seemed too tight (the most austere were the Serafins, but even that wasn't that unpleasant---though as I mentioned above, noticeably woody).

Weygandt, as he was pouring, talked about how a lot of people thought '07 was a mediocre vintage, which I'm assuming meant '07 was not as hopped up on acid and tannins as '05. Maybe that means '07s can (and should) be drunk earlier?

re: Bonneau du Martray. Is there no longer an importer for the mid-Atlantic? Does this mean they will only be available in the West Coast and New York?
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
re: Bonneau du Martray. Is there no longer an importer for the mid-Atlantic? Does this mean they will only be available in the West Coast and New York?
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As I mentioned above, there are a some other local importers. I think the California and New York importers were specifically named because those are the two largest markets.
 
originally posted by maureen:
Christian are you describing remy jobard 0r the jobard kermit imports? Not sure this wine saw malolactic.
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I wasn't actually describing the wines, which I haven't had in quite a while, and don't really remember clearly. I just meant to describe the effect of malolactic fermentation generally.
 
While on the topic of new producers (negotiant?), does anyone have any information on Gerard Thomas? I tried samples of his '07 CM and PM 1ers last week. They were decent (if very different: the Chassagne was softer, the Puligny much racier) and nicely priced for white Burgundy.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Yixin:
Dugat-Py needs age. I offer up as evidence the range in '91.
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Different style back then.
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Details, please. Us in the Far East don't get much news.
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This is not a producer that I visit because I do not like the heavily extracted, heavily oaked wines. My understanding, second hand, is that the change to the current style took place in the mid-1990s and before that the wines were admirably restrained and balanced (certainly, to the extent he made the 1988s sold under the name of his father, Pierre Dugat, that was the case).
 
Any particular reason Dugat changed the style? Scrambling for Parker points or did he just develop a preference for wines to bomb oak-tomically?

I notice that a lot of people have said the big stylistic changes in both Bordeaux and Burgundy happened around the mid to late 90s. Is it just parkerization or does it have more to do with global warming and inability (or perhaps unwillingness) to tame the overripeness in the cellar?
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
Any particular reason Dugat changed the style? Scrambling for Parker points or did he just develop a preference for wines to bomb oak-tomically?

I notice that a lot of people have said the big stylistic changes in both Bordeaux and Burgundy happened around the mid to late 90s. Is it just parkerization or does it have more to do with global warming and inability (or perhaps unwillingness) to tame the overripeness in the cellar?
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I can't speak to why Dugat-Py changed, but there are plenty of others who did not change, so that seems to eliminate your global warming theory.

As for when things began to change, for me it was a little earlier than you put it, ca. 1989-1990. That was at the time when Parker was at the peak of his power, so some attempt to please his tastes is not a bad inference. In Burgundy, many producers who did change (there was a vogue for lots of new oak ca. 1989-1990) did quickly change back, though.
 
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