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Mr hanlon shared a bottle of Cornelissen contadino 5 with cory and i last week.
I have to say it might have been the best wine i had from him so far. It didn't turn sour in 5 minutes like his wines usually do. It was very pleasant in a "peyra" kind of way, probably because of the volcanic soil, and the bad winemaking... i'm not sure what cory and jim thought about it, and i have no idea of the price tag on that one, but it was definitely a better drink than contadino 4...
 
It was drinkable for a minute and then did that thing all his wines do, it oxidized became unpleasant to drink and forced me to drink Noella Morantin Mon Cher gamay instead. I've still never had a bottle of wine from him that I would consider good, but I'd love to try them before shipping.
 
At the risk of sounding like clueless in the face of all the negativity, I have to say my limited experiences have not been consistently negative. I've opened 2 Contadino 4s, tasted the Munjebel Bianco 3, 1 Contadino 5 and a Munjebel 4.

It took only that first bottle of C4 to see that these are extremely fragile wines and assuming they've
arrived in decent condition, a little special handling makes a huge difference in how they show. I've had all the reds at home and under ideal circumstances. Only the MB3 was a disappointment, but it was not
had under optimum conditions. Mine have all come through Garagiste, who claim they
handle them properly and I have no reason to doubt them. I allow them to settle, pour them off the sediment and they have each needed about an hour to open up, balance out, and find themselves.
I didn't have the experience you guys had. They were at their best in the 2nd and 3rd hour after being opened. The most recent, the M4 was really good and was everything I imagined FCs wines could be.

I'm certain that had I popped and poured, they would not have shown nearly as well. Especially with the Contadino, those have the most sediment. I'm convinced you've got to settle it and lose it. Not doing that ruins the experience. I tasted what was left after the settling and pouring off and it was nasty. I have not found this to be nearly as important with most other nonfiltered wines.

How it was that that this 5 did better for you? I can't say. Mine have plenty of the fine sediment and I plan to continue to pour off of it.

The C5 from Garagiste was $19 + about $3 shipping.
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
At the risk of sounding like clueless in the face of all the negativity, I have to say my limited experiences have not been consistently negative. I've opened 2 Contadino 4s, tasted the Munjebel Bianco 3, 1 Contadino 5 and a Munjebel 4.

It took only that first bottle of C4 to see that these are extremely fragile wines and assuming they've
arrived in decent condition, a little special handling makes a huge difference in how they show. I've had all the reds at home and under ideal circumstances. Only the MB3 was a disappointment, but it was not
had under optimum conditions. Mine have all come through Garagiste, who claim they
handle them properly and I have no reason to doubt them. I allow them to settle, pour them off the sediment and they have each needed about an hour to open up, balance out, and find themselves.
I didn't have the experience you guys had. They were at their best in the 2nd and 3rd hour after being opened. The most recent, the M4 was really good and was everything I imagined FCs wines could be.

I'm certain that had I popped and poured, they would not have shown nearly as well. Especially with the Contadino, those have the most sediment. I'm convinced you've got to settle it and lose it. Not doing that ruins the experience. I tasted what was left after the settling and pouring off and it was nasty. I have not found this to be nearly as important with most other nonfiltered wines.

How it was that that this 5 did better for you? I can't say. Mine have plenty of the fine sediment and I plan to continue to pour off of it.

The C5 from Garagiste was $19 + about $3 shipping.
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Damn, it's cheap.
For the record, i didn't have only bad experiences with fc wines. Magma was quite interesting and that contadino 5 was as well. I definitely didn't like the magma enough to buy some (around $200 right?), but was definitely grateful for tasting it (thank you robert). One thing that i'm not convinced of is the theory that the wines should be open for a long time before consumption. Most of his wines showed quite a bit of volatiles and in my (short) experience, it doesn't improve with opening.. it tend to go worse! That last bottle was opened for over an hour before we started drinking it, it was fine at first but as cory noted, the wine was oxidizing very quickly.
 
my limited experiences have not been consistently negative
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Nor have mine. The wines, when "intact" (those would be air quotes if we were having a conversation), are extremely interesting. But we're being asked to pay an awful lot for a science experiment, and I think that drives some of the negativity.
 
I quite like the Bianco (3 separate bottles were all consistent and good) but haven't been convinced by the reds. I have not had an opportunity to try the Magma but the others didn't speak to me.

As I expected, leftovers of all of the wines turned brown and very odd the next day.

The pricing is actually quite reasonable in my view (with one notable exception).
 
originally posted by guilhaume:
I definitely didn't like the magma enough to buy some (around $200 right?), One thing that i'm not convinced of is the theory that the wines should be open for a long time before consumption. Most of his wines showed quite a bit of volatiles and in my (short) experience, it doesn't improve with opening.. it tend to go worse! That last bottle was opened for over an hour before we started drinking it, it was fine at first but as cory noted, the wine was oxidizing very quickly.
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The Magma "R" 06 cost me $143 + 3. That's the only Magma I've ever had the chance to buy. Considering, as explained by Matt Kramer, that the site is about the size of Romanee Conti and produces much less wine, well, I'll defer till I open one.

I'm surprised that's your experience. Volatiles should dissipate. You might try this method sometime, made popular by Franois Audouze.

As a side note, the more fragile and delicate the wine, the less likely to do well in busy settings. Years ago
I was talking to wine retailer I respected and I mentioned that I was saving a certain Musigny for a
fine restaurant occasion; he offered that for such a wine he would rather have it at home over some hours
in relative peace and quiet. It struck me as being a thought worth considering and I now find It is the way that I really experience a bottle to its fullest.
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
< Volatiles should dissipate.
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Ethyl acetate might if light but the real stuff (acetic acid) will never.
And the wine will remain tainted by the typical VA dryness and toughness if not balanced by something else than self-persuasion.
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey: Considering, as explained by Matt Kramer, that the site is about the size of Romanee Conti and produces much less wine, well, I'll defer till I open one.
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I understand that there are economics of small production wines but I have to imagine that the cost for the Magma is more than just that. Surely there's a touch of marketing involved as well!

Which is why the comparison to Romanee Conti seems a bit odd. There are lots of small vineyards in the world but what do any of them have to do with RC taste-wise. Including this Magma!
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Ned Hoey: Considering, as explained by Matt Kramer, that the site is about the size of Romanee Conti and produces much less wine, well, I'll defer till I open one.
Click to expand...

I understand that there are economics of small production wines but I have to imagine that the cost for the Magma is more than just that. Surely there's a touch of marketing involved as well!

Which is why the comparison to Romanee Conti seems a bit odd. There are lots of small vineyards in the world but what do any of them have to do with RC taste-wise. Including this Magma!
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Yes, but if you're being ambitious in the pricing department, why not compare to something that is rare, with quality beyond reproach, and really freaking expensive? I mean either 10Kish (or whatever) for DRC or $200 for Magma?

Marketing speak...
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
...with quality beyond reproach..
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I haven't had Magma but from these conversations it appears there is some debate about this point.
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I actually meant the opposite, I was talking about DRC. There's every suggestion that quality is a complete crapshoot, even considering stylistic preferences.

On a tangent, did anyone see the posts on Alice F.'s blog about the distinction between what Chauvet's actually wrote about the use of sulfur in wine and what gets attributed to him? Making a distinction between no sulfur for vinification (Chauvet) and no sulfur at all (Neauport.) Any further thoughts on this? Eric?

Cheers,

Kevin
 
originally posted by lars makie:
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
< Volatiles should dissipate.
Click to expand...
if not balanced by something else than self-persuasion.
Click to expand...
Never underestimate the power of a positive mental attitude.
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I like this. Perhaps we can market Wine Disorder brand VA neutralizer. Compressed air in a can, better yet, Nitrogen gas, (wouldn't want to actually be doing anything to the wine) guaranteed to help VA blow off of wine. Powered by nothing but positive mental attitude. This should be in the next 5 year plan, to be accomplished in no more than 7 years.
 
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
< Volatiles should dissipate.
Click to expand...

Ethyl acetate might if light but the real stuff (acetic acid) will never.
And the wine will remain tainted by the typical VA dryness and toughness if not balanced by something else than self-persuasion.
Click to expand...

Fucking B-I-N-G-O.
 
originally posted by Kevin Roberts:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
...with quality beyond reproach..
Click to expand...

I haven't had Magma but from these conversations it appears there is some debate about this point.
Click to expand...

I actually meant the opposite, I was talking about DRC. There's every suggestion that quality is a complete crapshoot, even considering stylistic preferences.

On a tangent, did anyone see the posts on Alice F.'s blog about the distinction between what Chauvet's actually wrote about the use of sulfur in wine and what gets attributed to him? Making a distinction between no sulfur for vinification (Chauvet) and no sulfur at all (Neauport.) Any further thoughts on this? Eric?

Cheers,

Kevin
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I'm not Eric, but we discussed this topic. Chauvet wrote a bunch of scholarly articles on the use of sulfur during fermentation which Neauport twisted to his own ends to mean no sulfur at all.

The Neauport methods are not really true Chauvet and they are detrimental to the expression of terroir.

I don't read French and the articles aren't available in English.
 
they are detrimental to the expression of terroir
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Like all absolutism, including the one you're complaining about, wrong. They may be detrimental to the expression of terroir. Perhaps more often than not, but still: not always.
 
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