Newbie joins the fray

BJ, we probably saw the same band last year: Chick, Airto, Eddie Gomez, and Hubert Laws. Was really hoping Flora would make a guest appearance. Closest I'll ever get to the original RtF band (never saw them live).

Oswaldo, I saw Weather Report open for Frank Zappa's big band (Grand Wazoo) in Dec. 1972 at Winterland. I liked what I heard, but didn't at all understand what I was listening to.
 
Yeah, same group. Saw them at Jazz Alley here in Seattle two different nights. One of the nights was a semi limp performance and Airto hit a point where I think he was frustrated and he busted out this insane percussion/vocalization solo for about ten minutes...pretty incredible.

The original RtF band - now there's a group I'd love to see.

Just saw Chick, Stanley Clarke, and Lenny White a couple weeks ago - beautiful show that included a couple of tracks off the Return to Forever album. To bad they couldn't have brought in Airto and Flora.
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
I still listen to Weather Report. Their music has never sounded dated to me.

What albums would you recommend of theirs...anything in the vein of RtF?
 
Weather Report never sounded like either incarnation of RtF. With that in mind, you'll probably find their music more accessible after Miroslav Vitous left the band. When he was there (first 3 studio albums), the music had more of a free jazz bent.

For me, two albums stand out after Vitous left: Mysterious Traveller (with Alphonso Johnson on bass guitar) and Night Passage (with the one and only Jaco Pastorius holding down the bass chair). Heavy Weather had their one genuine hit on it, Birdland. It's also a very good album.
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
Frank Zappa's big band (Grand Wazoo) in Dec. 1972 at Winterland.

That was the Petit Wazoo Band, Frank couldn't afford to tour nationally with the Grand Wazoo, or he chose not to anyway. 12-15-72. That was a great tour.

I saw RtF on what must have been the tour for Romantic Warrior in '75 or '76. According WikiPedia that was the 5th lineup! I had no idea.
 
Sometime in the ealy 70s I was sitting in the third row of a Zappa concert in London's Rainbow Theater when he was thrown into the orchestra pit by a jealous roadie. Zappa spent several weeks in divers casts, and we never got our money back, since we got more spectacle than we had paid for.

I was also thinking about the tragic circumstances of Jaco's death, in the hands of a martial arts-trained bouncer in some dark back alley. This bouncer has not, surely, been adequately punished.
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
I still listen to Weather Report. Their music has never sounded dated to me.

with a few exceptions, i would agree...at least from their first album all the way up to....hmmm night passages? zawinul went too tribal-techno most of the time after that, and i missed the poetic angularity of shorter's compositions. i still get shivers listening to unknown soldier..well most of that album really.
 
Ned, you're correct, of course, but I opted to keep the Zappa minutiae out of this thread. You were at that Winterland show, too? Saw RtF at Zellerbach Hall in '74 ("Where HIKYB") and had front row tix for the '75 show ("No Mystery") at Berkeley Community Theater.

Joel, I think WR regained its edge in many of the compositions on "Procession" and "Domino Theory". The shows in support of those albums were excellent.

It took some time, but both Shorter and Zawinul found their place as solo artists. Joe's bands and music in the latter part of the 90s until he passed were excellent. I don't think anything needs to be said about Wayne's current quartet w/ Perez, Pattitucci, and the marvelous Brian Blade.
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
Weather Report never sounded like either incarnation of RtF. With that in mind, you'll probably find their music more accessible after Miroslav Vitous left the band. When he was there (first 3 studio albums), the music had more of a free jazz bent.

For me, two albums stand out after Vitous left: Mysterious Traveller (with Alphonso Johnson on bass guitar) and Night Passage (with the one and only Jaco Pastorius holding down the bass chair). Heavy Weather had their one genuine hit on it, Birdland. It's also a very good album.

Nice call.....if one likes Romantic Warrior type stuff, Mysterious Traveler should be equally engaging.....i mean American Tango, wow, what a tune that is. It really combines muscular restraint with poetry. One more for the (slightly) "in the RTF vein" would be Black Market.

Larry, here's something from the late Zawinul period that always stuns me....Trilok in so watchable...it's just a groove, but what a groove for 2 dudes

 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
You were at that Winterland show, too?

I wish! I was 13 and not quite going to shows yet. I'm familiar with that tour as I have a number of pretty
decent audience tapes from it. No tape has ever surfaced of the Winterland gig though.

I saw RtF at Wesleyan U in CT, where I'm from.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Lawd, and I saw him with Jimmy Witherspoon when he was 17 year old prodigy. I was into Weather Report at the time, so couldn't really appreciate it...

Oswaldo, I saw Ford with Witherspoon when I was about 17 (they opened a show for War) at the local university. It was quite inspiring on a number of levels, culminating in an interesting story about doing a week in a backup band with Witherspoon a few years later in LA. This being a family wine board and all it'll have to wait until we meet up somewhere but let's just say that it involves guns, cocaine, comparisons between Witherspoon and Big Mama Thornton's singing abilities, Tom Waits and a kid from a small town who'd never seen any of that shit in person before, especially not onstage in a club with an audience watching.

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Sometime in the ealy 70s I was sitting in the third row of a Zappa concert in London's Rainbow Theater when he was thrown into the orchestra pit by a jealous roadie. Zappa spent several weeks in divers casts, and we never got our money back, since we got more spectacle than we had paid for.

I was also thinking about the tragic circumstances of Jaco's death, in the hands of a martial arts-trained bouncer in some dark back alley. This bouncer has not, surely, been adequately punished.

I too got more spectacle than I'd paid for at the 1984 Playboy Jazz Festival where Jaco totally flipped out, freaking the rest of the band out so much that they left the stage one-by-one about 2/3rd through the set. Jaco trashed his amp, the drumset, the music stands and tossed his bass against the back wall before Bill Cosby walked over to him, put his arm around the shoulders of the bassist and walked him offstage. I don't recall whose set was scheduled after the Pastorius Big Band's but it would certainly be a tough act to follow.

Mental illness is tough to deal with, particularly if the sufferer refuses to take meds to help with the problem. On the night he died, Jaco just fucked with the wrong guy on the wrong night the was killed - Bill Milkowski's book on Pastorius goes into it in great detail and is worthwhile reading if you're at all interested in Jaco and his influence.

By my reckoning, the "modern" bass revolution began with Jimmy Blanton in the late 40s and from there the major tectonic shifts went through Scott La Faro in the 60s. Starting in the 1970s, both Stanley Clarke (by way of Larry Graham) and Jaco Pastorius (by way of Charlie Parker) brought down a whole world of hurt onto those of us making music with four strings. There were a bunch of other virtuoso players bridging the gaps but these were the guys who radically changed the way people thought about the instrument and its place in the band.

-Eden (here's a video of Jaco toward the end in 1984....he's backed by the Gil Evans band, and I've no idea why he's covered in mud, but at least he was ambulatory and very musical)
 
i saw a few out of control jaco performances...genius tho he was it was hard to watch sometimes. "portrait of jaco -the early years" has some illuminating early recordings and is worth checking out too.

he and joe really had it goin' on during the mr. gone tour...that was a potent quartet.
 
Apologies if I've posted this here before...

In '76, I went to see Weather Report at the Paramount Theater in Oakland. Had a 6th row center seat. I fully expected to see Alphonso Johnson on bass. This skinny guy with long stringy hair and a beat-to-shit Fender bass came out on stage. Who the hell is this? I'm sure sometime during the first 5 min. of the show, my jaw dropped to my knees.

Saw every local WR show with Jaco after that.
 
Oswaldo, I saw Ford with Witherspoon when I was about 17 (they opened a show for War) at the local university. It was quite inspiring on a number of levels, culminating in an interesting story about doing a week in a backup band with Witherspoon a few years later in LA. This being a family wine board and all it'll have to wait until we meet up somewhere but let's just say that it involves guns, cocaine, comparisons between Witherspoon and Big Mama Thornton's singing abilities, Tom Waits and a kid from a small town who'd never seen any of that shit in person before, especially not onstage in a club with an audience watching.

Cool, that makes us the same vintage. Look forward (greatly) to the X rated story and will look at the video when I get myself somewhere with a decent connection (currently on Madeira). A guy who's not very hip but had (has) amazing chops was Jeff Berlin...
 
Jeff was one of the instructors at the music school I attended (BIT) and he struck me as sort of a music jock (I kept looking for a fraternity pin or something on him). He had technique for days but he played like it was more about the notes than the music. At 22 years of age, I definitely was into impressing the Guitar Center salespeople with my blindingly fast chops when I stopped in to try out a new bass amp or effect, but thirty years later I'm more enamored of the "fewer notes but the right notes" approach to the instrument. The school's master classes with Leroy Vinegar and Alphonso Johnson have turned out to have been much more useful to me over the years than the sessions with Jeff Berlin and Steve Anderson.

-Eden (Chuck Rainey was the original writer of the school's curriculum and I still use what I learned from him every time I pick up a bass)
 
ditto on the jeff berlin stuff....("music jock", nice one)....i think i enjoyed a bit of what he did with bill bruford, but that was way back when. alphonso is a great musician.....he's got some cool lessons on his website that i've picked up some helpful things from.

re - "fewer notes but the right notes", Eden....how about charlie haden? i find him an unusual intriguing combination of things...
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
Apologies if I've posted this here before...

In '76, I went to see Weather Report at the Paramount Theater in Oakland. Had a 6th row center seat. I fully expected to see Alphonso Johnson on bass. This skinny guy with long stringy hair and a beat-to-shit Fender bass came out on stage. Who the hell is this? I'm sure sometime during the first 5 min. of the show, my jaw dropped to my knees.

Saw every local WR show with Jaco after that.

similar story here, Larry....i saw WR at the Paramount...in Seattle, in '76....jaco really was a phenomenon at that show...the one and only time i saw him play portrait of tracy the whole way through...and he handled it so delicately, like he had all the time in the world (the house was packed and silent). that was the beginning of several shows worth of fun for me...
 
I was at Berklee from late 79 to 82 and then GIT for a year, 1983, so we must have just missed each other. Yes, I loved speed back then, today I can't stand exhibitionism or a solo that doesn't tell a story.
 
Wow, this is a great thread. I've been reading up a little about Pastorius, having known nothing previously, and here it turns out that he's the incredible bassist on two of my all time favorite albums, Hejira and Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - where he is so so good.

Joel, I didn't realize you were such a music person. When did you live in Seattle? You're in Japan now? If you're ever in town (Seattle), let me know.

I'm going to try to pick up the Jaco WR today.
 
"Hejira" is easily my favorite Joni Mitchell album. The only regret of my vacation to the UK in '79 was missing her "Shadows and Light" shows at the San Francisco Civic with that amazing band of Pastorius, Metheny, Mays, M. Brecker, and Alias.
 
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