Newbie joins the fray

originally posted by Joel Stewart:
originally posted by Larry Stein:
Weather Report never sounded like either incarnation of RtF. With that in mind, you'll probably find their music more accessible after Miroslav Vitous left the band. When he was there (first 3 studio albums), the music had more of a free jazz bent.
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Nice call.....if one likes Romantic Warrior type stuff, Mysterious Traveler should be equally engaging.....i mean American Tango, wow, what a tune that is. It really combines muscular restraint with poetry. One more for the (slightly) "in the RTF vein" would be Black Market.
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Love American Tango. And I enjoyed Berlin (jock is perfect, Eden) when he was with Bruford too, Joel, partially because Allan Holdsworth was, hands down, the most unbelievably awesome (technically speaking) guitarist I have ever seen, more astonishing even than McLaughlin or Gambale. I am speaking of chops ONLY, since none of them can really tell a story. It's like watching olympic gymnasts or circus artists doing amazing stunts.

Larry, I really like the album of the Shadows and Light tour. On it Pat Metheny plays one of the most wonderful guitar solos ever recorded, IMHO (I've seen it on youtube). It really tells a story, and I prefer it to just about anything the other three (above-mentioned) have done (McLaughlin, to be fair, is immensely sophisticated, and does play one solo that tells a pretty amazing story using pentatonics weaving in and out of key, on a solo album in which he shares a cut with Carlos Santana).

Eden, speaking of few choice notes, one of the finest bassists I have ever seen was Fernando Saunders with McLaughlin's One Truth Band. Their one album is not so hot, but live they were something else, with all the subtlety that was missing in the Mahavishnu Orchestra.

How's this for a wine thread? Hope we're not boring everybody else.
 
i think fernando played even fewer choice notes with lou reed!....but i agree, he did have some grit with JM...(and hey, ralph armstrong was no slouch either). Oswaldo, what's that tune from shadows and light? curious.

BJ - i'm just sort of a fringe music freak (grew up in t-town..moved to japan in '86). that is to say i love music of nearly all kinds (saw most of it during the late 70's- 80's), and play a little bit, but Eden and Oswaldo are the real thing here. definitely take my comments and opinions with two grains of salt, or aspirin, or...
 
originally posted by BJ:
If you're ever in town (Seattle)
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This recommendation may be a little far out, but if you're in Seattle, check out Cuong Vu's trio/Vu-tet sometime. Cuong is currently at University of Washington. He's a trumpet player out of the early-70's Miles school. The tie-in with this thread is that he plays with Stomu Takeishi, a remarkable, high-energy bassist. I heard them play last October, a set of idiosyncratic takes on standards. Looks from their website that they'll be playing in Seattle the weekend of 1/9-1/10.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Oswaldo, what's that tune from shadows and light? curious./
It's just called Pat's Solo and I've always thought of it as an improvisation that evolved over the course of the tour, since Lyle Mays plays a bit of synth back up at one point...
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Ok...I'll have to dig it out. I recall the moment in the show (I saw one of the Hollywood Bowl gigs) and the tone, but the specific notes will require a re-visit. He does know how to build a solo. These days I mainly have a fondness for his trio work, and I can get into some of the stuff on Missouri too (but from time to time, I find myself wishing he'd put the nylon string down for an acoustic archtop).
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
"Hejira" is easily my favorite Joni Mitchell album. The only regret of my vacation to the UK in '79 was missing her "Shadows and Light" shows at the San Francisco Civic with that amazing band of Pastorius, Metheny, Mays, M. Brecker, and Alias.
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Same on all counts. I missed seeing Shadows and Light but ended up listening to a recording of it over and over. "Hejira" is a truly a classic, to state the obvious.
 
originally posted by Bwood:
originally posted by Larry Stein:
"Hejira" is easily my favorite Joni Mitchell album. The only regret of my vacation to the UK in '79 was missing her "Shadows and Light" shows at the San Francisco Civic with that amazing band of Pastorius, Metheny, Mays, M. Brecker, and Alias.
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Same on all counts. I missed seeing Shadows and Light but ended up listening to a recording of it over and over. "Hejira" is a truly a classic, to state the obvious.
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We love you, jb!
 
originally posted by BJ:
Wow, this is a great thread. I've been reading up a little about Pastorius, having known nothing previously, and here it turns out that he's the incredible bassist on two of my all time favorite albums, Hejira and Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - where he is so so good.

Joel, I didn't realize you were such a music person. When did you live in Seattle? You're in Japan now? If you're ever in town (Seattle), let me know.

I'm going to try to pick up the Jaco WR today.
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BJ, if you find yourself leaning towards rapidly becoming a Jaco fan (and like Metheny), Metheny's early (pre-Metheny Group) album, titled "Bright Size Life" is highly recommended. Pat, Jaco with Bob Moses on drums. With just a trio (well 3.5 people; Pat uses an extra track once in awhile for subtle backing guitar) you get a clear shot at how they develop their solos, as well as their fine affinity for interplay.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart: [ Metheny's early (pre-Metheny Group) album, titled "Bright Size Life" is highly recommended. Pat, Jaco with Bob Moses on drums. With just a trio (well 3.5 people; Pat uses an extra track once in awhile for subtle backing guitar) you get a clear shot at how they develop their solos, as well as their fine affinity for interplay.
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Joel, Here's a cut that appears to be from the album you are referring to...

Bright Size of Life

[EDITED TO ADD]

I just got a copy of the album at buy.com

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
originally posted by Joel Stewart: [ Metheny's early (pre-Metheny Group) album, titled "Bright Size Life" is highly recommended. Pat, Jaco with Bob Moses on drums. With just a trio (well 3.5 people; Pat uses an extra track once in awhile for subtle backing guitar) you get a clear shot at how they develop their solos, as well as their fine affinity for interplay.
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Joel, Here's a cut that appears to be from the album you are referring to...

Bright Size of Life

[EDITED TO ADD]

I just got a copy of the album at buy.com

. . . . . Pete
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I got it too, and like it very much. Thanks for the recommendation, Joel. It's very nice.
 
Glad it worked out, BJ. I saw Metheny several times after buying that record in '76 or '77 on a whim...just because I saw Jaco was on it. (What a score to put the needle on that record for the first time.) Saw the first Metheny Group tour at Bumbershoot for example....that was some show. After awhile tho, a lot of the material ran together sonically for me (American Garage tour was kinda fun, and there were some interesting moments after the original members changed). This album is always fresh to me. It lacks some of the aural wash that PMG tends to load up on, but you can hear the beginnings of that ethereal sound on Midsummer Night's Dream, for example....as well as Roundtrip/Roadway Blues leading towards the Ornette collaboration further down the road.

Another little side story....drummer Bob Moses played Jazz Alley back when it was a little brick hole in the wall up on University Way in the late '70's +. No stage, just tables and then musicians right there in front of you. During a break, I went up to him and told him how much I enjoyed his drumming on Metheny's BSL. He said he got more compliments about that record than any other...but there was huge cognitive dissonance in the way the producer recorded his drums (way too much high end, on the cymbals especially, which is common in a lot of ECM albums from that era) compared to what the actual sound those 3 guys were making in the studio....he basically said they rocked much harder than the album suggests. (If one is a musician, it pays to know who's doing the recording and with what sort of gear.) It's still a little gem of an album, with little bombast or decoration, some great spontaneous improv etc.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I was at Berklee from late 79 to 82 and then GIT for a year, 1983, so we must have just missed each other. Yes, I loved speed back then, today I can't stand exhibitionism or a solo that doesn't tell a story.
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I don't know, Oswaldo....I mean, yes, muscle-flexing that was designed "to impress" was part of the downfall of fusion after all, I think, but there is a place for speed and even exhibitionism in music (James Brown, anyone?)...sometimes, just sometimes, grandstanding and showing your chops for the sheer glee of it has it's own artistic value, I think. (But you are right, the best of it still tells a story.) Think of McLaughlin's Shakti band (or Indian music in general), Michelangelo, Eddie Van Halen, Bud Powell, Bird.....the best of these did in fact tell stories with their exhibitionist chops...at least the way I see it. And that's a good thing....I suspect a lot of it has to do with hormones and youth, but even if it lacks the wisdom of age, it makes up for it in joie de vivre. Muscle flexing for it's own sake is a bore, but muscle flexing in the service of (usually) youthful expression ("Check it out, I do this because I can!!!") is not all bad. It's like watching a dog at it's physical peak, running at full speed, and just appreciating the ease of the mechanics of that...and the dog's sheer pleasure at doing it.
 
Good points, Joel, and eloquently put. I find the pleasure of exhibitionism - you're right, it can and does exist for me - similar to circus stunts and olympic feats: they make you go "wow," but there's not much substance behind the flash (usually). In most modern dance companies, the dancers every now and then will show you just how fabulously fit they are, but in my favorite one of them all, Pina Bausch Dance Theater from Wuppertal, they seem to have gone beyond that, appearing to find that sort of thing a little vulgar, perhaps. While technically awesome, all they seem to care about is being dramatically awesome. And they have given me the most moving moments I have experienced from dance. So I guess I've spread that paradigm to all media, much as I enjoy a touch of sass (like flamenco guitar), at least for a few minutes, before it starts to wear thin.
 
Jaco's debut album is terrific. Just bought it, and it's knocking my socks off. He covers so much territory. Really a brilliant guy. I don't know if you guys think much of the Cook/Morton Penguin book, but I think their review is unduly harsh.
 
originally posted by BJ:
Jaco's debut album is terrific. Just bought it, and it's knocking my socks off. He covers so much territory. Really a brilliant guy. I don't know if you guys think much of the Cook/Morton Penguin book, but I think their review is unduly harsh.
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Agreed, BJ, it is terrific.....a prime example of amazing chops in the service of an incredibly fertile mind. Don't know the C/M book, but Herbie says it all on the liner notes. I've no quibbles with anything on that album....tho perhaps the orchestral piece is still an odd man out for me.
 
John Abercrombie anyone?...esp. when playing with Holland and Dejohnette as a post-bop trio. Have been re-listening to their '95 ECM album Gateway - Homecoming, lately....and enjoying their approach. Looser, yet still swings, and Abercrombie goes outside a bit more than Pat usually does, which adds a bit of edge.
 
Saw Gateway a few years ago at Yoshi's in Oakland. Phenomenal. Love their two ECM discs, too. I saw the Abercrombie Quartet at the Palace of the Legion of Honor just a few months ago. It was quite good. Sandi and I had one issue with that show. We had just had brunch and then went to his performance (2PM matinee). Some of his music gets rather dreamy. It was really tough at times to stay awake! We noticed a couple of folks around us went into dreamland.
 
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