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Barolo Chinato recs
- Thread starter slaton
- Start date
SteveTimko
Steve Timko
Try them both and report back.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Cappellano and Vergano are real high water marks of the genre. You might be somewhat bummed that you spent a lot of dough on the Marcarini or Vajra. I serve all four, and while the Marcarini and Vajra are both credible and good (although quite different from each other), they are not usually the notable standouts for people when you pour six or eight chinati for a side by side. I find myself most drawn to Cappellano, Vergano Nebbiolo, and Roagna. You might want to wait for some free tasting opportunity to try others.
All of that being said, I wouldn't say that Marcarini and Vajra actually aren't worth the money, which is something I would say of Fontanafredda and Cocchi Chinati. I think that if you do have the money to spare, that it might be of interest to you to try Marcarini and/or Vajra. Do you have some people to drink the bottles with? Chinati don't hold up as well open as some would seem to believe. Vajra for instance is a bit volatile to begin with, and 2 days open doesn't do a bottle any favors.
I would keep in mind that we are dealing with a non-vintage product, so my bottles may not be your bottles. I've noticed significant batch differences with Vergano, for instance. Also, I think that the possibility that a bottle could be cooked by poor storage in a shop is real.
Is the Marcarini in 375ml and the Vajra a 750ml?
All of that being said, I wouldn't say that Marcarini and Vajra actually aren't worth the money, which is something I would say of Fontanafredda and Cocchi Chinati. I think that if you do have the money to spare, that it might be of interest to you to try Marcarini and/or Vajra. Do you have some people to drink the bottles with? Chinati don't hold up as well open as some would seem to believe. Vajra for instance is a bit volatile to begin with, and 2 days open doesn't do a bottle any favors.
I would keep in mind that we are dealing with a non-vintage product, so my bottles may not be your bottles. I've noticed significant batch differences with Vergano, for instance. Also, I think that the possibility that a bottle could be cooked by poor storage in a shop is real.
Is the Marcarini in 375ml and the Vajra a 750ml?
Thanks for the thoughts. I'm surprised to hear that these can't hold up for more than a couple of days after opening; I was definitely envisioning consuming a bottle over a few weeks. Is Cappellano's chinato similarly perishable?
You have the respective sizes correct. And come to think of it I have had the Cocchi, and if I recall correctly I liked it but found it to have mostly flavors that I would identify as sort of generic amaro or even Fernet-like, and less identifiable Barolo or nebbiolo character.
There is a shop near the bay area that sells Cappellano chinato so I will probably just hold off and pick up some of that.
You have the respective sizes correct. And come to think of it I have had the Cocchi, and if I recall correctly I liked it but found it to have mostly flavors that I would identify as sort of generic amaro or even Fernet-like, and less identifiable Barolo or nebbiolo character.
There is a shop near the bay area that sells Cappellano chinato so I will probably just hold off and pick up some of that.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by slaton:
Thanks for the thoughts. I'm surprised to hear that these can't hold up for more than a couple of days after opening; I was definitely envisioning consuming a bottle over a few weeks. Is Cappellano's chinato similarly perishable?
Others might disagree, but I find the diminishment of nuance to be noticeable after a couple of days. The same as I might find a Barolo with a few years on it to be less interesting on day 3 in an open bottle.
And come to think of it I have had the Cocchi, and if I recall correctly I liked it but found it to have mostly flavors that I would identify as sort of generic amaro or even Fernet-like, and less identifiable Barolo or nebbiolo character.
Right. It definitely tastes like the grapes they are just trying to get rid of make their way into the chinato.
There is a shop near the bay area that sells Cappellano chinato so I will probably just hold off and pick up some of that.
I don't know. If you are definitely spending the money either way, I would suggest broadening your palate experience of the category. Unless you want to show other people what the category can really be at its best.
For me, Cappellano Chinato is a highlight in the world of fermented grapes in general. Lots of people seem to be unmoved by it when tasting it for the first time. I don't have much in common with those people, myself.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
As it is the holiday, I would mention that it is Roagna Chinato that reminds me of the holiday meal. Cranberry spice notes.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
I have had a few bottles of the Vajra and am a fan. Never had any V.A. nor has there been any problem nursing a bottle for several months. I like it a lot. All the non-grape ingredients stick out a little bit more than they do in the Cappellano, but I find that true of everyone else's Chinato - no others seem as integrated with everything in perfect proportions. But the Vajra is probably the next best in my experience. (I haven't had or even seen the Vergano though.) I don't know what it costs here (my bottles were from Italy and ran me maybe $30) - if it's much more than that I'd just go for the Cappellano... I assume it's not something you're going to go through a whole case of or anything...
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Keith: Vajra Barolo Chinato 750ml is probably about $85 on the shelf in California.
Cappellano Barolo Chinato 750ml wholesales for about $62 a bottle in NY.
Cappellano Barolo Chinato 750ml wholesales for about $62 a bottle in NY.
While it is true that chinati do oxidize quickly, it is worth noting that many chinato producers themselves will enjoy bottles over long periods of time. Teobaldo Cappellano would offer tastes of bottles for comparison that would have been open for years in some cases. While my visit was in a semi-professional, somewhat analytical setting, he would talk of enjoying a pour from certain bottles as personal treats.
Luca Roagna had a bottle of Maria Teresa Mascarello's chinato that he'd been slowly sipping over a long time, and while I didn't taste his personal chinato, he did offer samples of back-vintage table wines that had been open for months. As did Quintarelli. They were affected, sure, but not as much as I would have expected (shockingly so with some of the Quintarelli bottles), and still offered insight and enjoyment.
I agree with Levi, there is a definite loss of nuance within a few days. These are products that lend themselves to contemplation, so plan accordingly if that is your goal. However, they are also products that are appropriate for gatherings of friends and family, where contemplation may not be in keeping with the evening's mood. So if you haul out a bottle that happens to have been open for a while, you can still count on it bringing pleasure.
Luca Roagna had a bottle of Maria Teresa Mascarello's chinato that he'd been slowly sipping over a long time, and while I didn't taste his personal chinato, he did offer samples of back-vintage table wines that had been open for months. As did Quintarelli. They were affected, sure, but not as much as I would have expected (shockingly so with some of the Quintarelli bottles), and still offered insight and enjoyment.
I agree with Levi, there is a definite loss of nuance within a few days. These are products that lend themselves to contemplation, so plan accordingly if that is your goal. However, they are also products that are appropriate for gatherings of friends and family, where contemplation may not be in keeping with the evening's mood. So if you haul out a bottle that happens to have been open for a while, you can still count on it bringing pleasure.
This is a very timely (and informative) post, because just last night I was at Levi's restaurant and thanks to him, tasted a wonderful Cappellano Chinato, along with two Vergano Chinati, one red and one made from Moscato. All were enjoyable, but my preference was for the Cappellano as it had extra complexity and nuance. I was struct by how light and dry they were, far different from the Chinato I tried in Piemonte, which seemed darker and thicker, like fortified wines with added spices and herbs. Thanks again, Levi.
U
Unknown
Guest
Seth, have you tried the B. Mascarello Chinato? I've got a bottle and not sure what to do with it.
I didn't ask Luca, and wasn't offered. Unfortunately, I had seen him after visiting MTB, and didn't look for the Chinato while I was at her Cantina. As I assume you know, that 500ml came from a 50L barrel so it's pretty precious stuff...
That said, I've got a few ideas about what you could do with it- and they involve me traveling north or you south!
Perhaps there will be a suitable occasion this spring, after sharing a meal prepared by old friends of mutual acquaintance in a certain new setting. I've got a bottle of old Huet that you'd probably think was too sweet.
That said, I've got a few ideas about what you could do with it- and they involve me traveling north or you south!
Perhaps there will be a suitable occasion this spring, after sharing a meal prepared by old friends of mutual acquaintance in a certain new setting. I've got a bottle of old Huet that you'd probably think was too sweet.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Seth Hill:
I didn't ask Luca, and wasn't offered. Unfortunately, I had seen him after visiting MTB, and didn't look for the Chinato while I was at her Cantina. As I assume you know, that 500ml came from a 50L barrel so it's pretty precious stuff...
That said, I've got a few ideas about what you could do with it- and they involve me traveling north or you south!
Perhaps there will be a suitable occasion this spring, after sharing a meal prepared by old friends of mutual acquaintance in a certain new setting. I've got a bottle of old Huet that you'd probably think was too sweet.
She doesn't sell it, telling me it is only for friends and family, but I didn't realize the production was so small. That makes me feel pretty good, thanks!
If you are really into the stuff, it would be a shame for me to drink it without you. I'd put your name on it, but the label is a stamp-sized BM paiting.
I drink old Huet if forced.
Best,
Joe
originally posted by Joe_Perry:
She doesn't sell it, telling me it is only for friends and family, but I didn't realize the production was so small. That makes me feel pretty good, thanks!
If you are really into the stuff, it would be a shame for me to drink it without you. I'd put your name on it, but the label is a stamp-sized BM paiting.
I drink old Huet if forced.
Best,
Joe
A quite generous offer, made in the same spirit as from its source. It'd be an honor and pleasure.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by Asher:
This is a very timely (and informative) post, because just last night I was at Levi's restaurant and thanks to him, tasted a wonderful Cappellano Chinato, along with two Vergano Chinati, one red and one made from Moscato. All were enjoyable, but my preference was for the Cappellano as it had extra complexity and nuance. I was struct by how light and dry they were, far different from the Chinato I tried in Piemonte, which seemed darker and thicker, like fortified wines with added spices and herbs. Thanks again, Levi.
Glad you could make it, Asher!