Has Anyone Enjoyed Drinking Cornelissen's Wines?

J

Joe Dressner

Joe Dressner
Somehow, Frank Cornelissen has become the Buddha and ultimate symbol of the natural wine movement.

Where and when was this decision made? Who exactly decided?

I mention in another thread that I have only tasted through Cornelissen's wine once in my life, with the famous winemaker himself before he had become the famous winemaker himself. I was unimpressed with the wines but found the guy a very spirited self-promoter. My God, I underestimated his abilities.

Which brings me to the question:

Has anyone actually enjoyed drinking Cornelissen's wines? I mean really enjoyed, the way you've enjoyed a wine from Occhipinti, Marc Ollivier, Thierry Puzelat or Marcel Lapierre?
 
Joe, I have not, but I know people whose palates I trust that have enjoyed them so that is that and other people's tastes interest me less and less the more I know my own. It does seem he has supplanted Joly in the category of most over-talked about "natural" winemaker, however.
 
I enjoy drinking them with the appropriate food very much. I wonder how many people who comment on the wines have actually "drank" them. I know many people have tasted them at various wine geek events. Based on the small amount amount that comes to the U.S. I doubt many have substantial experience with them. I also enjoy the wines that Joe mentioned.
 
Joe, i enjoyed his wines for different reasons besides just pure taste, aromas, etc. The wines clearly speak of this man's iconoclastic and fringe ideas on how wine is made. Can i say i enjoy them like i do Occhipinti, 'Ogu, Lapierre, Bea?...no, no way. The wines offer a look backwards(forwards?) into the primordial soup of both Mt. Etna and the capturing of fermenting grape juice, a unique experience. I recently had the Contadino 4 with a group of close friends and wine colleagues and we all had a great time, hence enjoying the wine. It's def. not the wine i look to when i want pure drinking pleasure. A wine that i do very much enjoy and enjoyed at your tasting a few months ago was the Salvo Foti Rosso. Really cool and enjoyable. Cornelissen esque but without the scary parts.
 
That's sort of what I would add to my post, too. I don't expect to like (if that's what I end up doing) the Cornelissen in the same way I enjoy the L's and P's. Cornelissen is apparently reaching for something different and though it may be hype, I just want to see what that is...really, just for curiosity's sake. The price on the Contadino's make this foray fairly low risk.
 
One of the most recent red was quite enjoyable, but definitely on the "picnic" wine category. You know, boiled eggs, jambon-beurre kind of thing.
Personally, i wouldn't put it next to Lapierre or any of the other producers you mentioned.
 
I've had 2 bottles of various red (not Magma) and 2 bottles of last year's white. I liked the white quite a bit and found it very interesting and enjoyable. The reds, not so much. Interesting, for sure. Not so enjoyable for me, though.
 
I find Cornelissen's wines curious. They provoke thought in me, which is enjoyable per se. But I'd certainly enjoy other wines much more.
 
I first heard about him in 2005. I was intrigued. It took me 4 years to actually get my hands on some.
It's only been in the past year or so that the buzz about him had grown loud. Cost seemed reasonable to me, upper teens for Contadino, 30s for Munjebels.

I don't know when it was that Joe tasted the wines and considering the things that are on his mind as an importer, choosing to pass was certainly understandable. Two different Italian buyers I know visited
FC in Sicily and thought the wines very interesting but passed also. Mostly because of shipping concerns.

It has been just 9 years so far and I see it as a work in progress. Just what the first few years were like I don't know. I suspect FC has been refining and doing his best to improve. The place and the style are
interesting to me, so the wines are something I'm willing to buy a mixed case of once a year.

I have interests in a variety of wine regions and producers. FC is just one of many.
 
Joe Dressner,

Did you try the wines during the early "intellectual" period, or after?

I have a fair amount of experience with the Munjebel 4 and 5 Bianco, as well as the Munjebel 4 and 5 Rosso, and the Susucaru 2 Rosato. Also, I spent some time with a bottle of Nero d'Avola in Tokyo.

The Munjebel 4 Bianco was my favorite wine of the first orange wine dinner. Totally captivating, until horse notes took over a couple hours after opening. That bottle was not decanted. I subsequently sat and drank a bottle of 4 Bianco that was decanted, side by side a decanted 4 Rosso. Neither wine showed brilliantly on that occasion. I sat with them for about an hour and a half. There is a restaurant in NYC where this is possible (not mine). If anyone wants to know where, email me and I will tell you.

I have opened several bottles of 5 Bianco and 5 Rosso. I could probably live without Bianco. The 5 Rosso is dear to my heart and the more I sit with it the more I love it. It is wondorous and inspiring, and I think enlightening as to what is possible on Etna. The Rosato 2 has an immediacy about it that is very appealing, but I would say it is difficult to drink a lot of it. I had some with dinner the other night and it went unfinished.

I have yet to have the Magma, although I am in possesion of bottles.

The Nero d'Avola was pure and straightforward, if a bit simple. I enjoyed the bottle I drank, but it wasn't extraordinary, or as volatile as Munjebel.

Anyway, I like the 5 Rosso quite a bit, and I have spent lengths of time with a bottle. When you look at what is being done with most Etna Nerello fruit, Munjebel is a revelation.

I can very much understand someone not liking the wines, and your own decision not to import them. I enjoy them, and I don't attribute that to marketing.

I also like Savese, and that estate gets hardly any attention at all.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Somehow, Frank Cornelissen has become the Buddha and ultimate symbol of the natural wine movement.
Click to expand...

Which definitely is a big mistake. In my humble opinion it is impossible to compare Cornelissens wines with anything else in the world of wine. Both for the methods Frank Cornelissen uses and for the taste of the wines. Cornelissens wines is not a symbol of any movement, naturality or whatever. They are just a symbol for Cornelissen himself.

I have tasted 25-30 bottles of Cornelissens wines, the first a little more than three years ago. I have enjoyed many (the source here in Norway has proven excellent storage), but definitely not all. I enjoyed the Contadino 3 a lot. That said the Contadino 3 also had a lot of off-bottles and less than perfect bottles. But perfect Contadino 3 was very good. Lots of crushed rocks, ash, fresh fruit and wild yeast. I have enjoyed the purer Contadino 5 less.

The Munjebel rosso has never been my favorite. It is a kind of "smaller" Magma. IMO it does not offer the interest of neither the Magmas nor the Contadino. The Munjebel bianco is OTOH a wine that fascinates me. It is not an easy wine. It has minerality, ash. But loads of macerated aromatics and not very precise.

The Magmas are single-vineyards wines. There have been lots of different vineyards through the years - all distinguished with a single letter. There are:

Magma T from Contrada Trefiletti (the most ashy/Etna-like)
Magma C from Contrada Calderara (the most burgundian)
Magma M from Contrada Marchesa (more nebbiolo-like)
Magma R from Contrada Rampante (more exotic)
Magma VB from Vigna Basse (never tasted)

and there's probably even more that I don't remember right now. All of these are not made every year. The different Magmas tastes very individual from my experience. My favorites have been the C and M. But I don't taste the Magmas too often. I find them very good, but also with such a price-tag that I am not a buyer.
 
Joe,
Not the same kind of enjoyment as Lapierre, but enjoyment nonetheless.
A wine of remarkable character, when accompanied by appropriate food, is enjoyment - for me.
But then, one man's poison is another's . . .
Best, Jim
 
No, because I haven't had any. Donations welcome.

Although my experience with other vin naturel has been very mixed.
 
The one that sticks in my mind is the Cornelissen 2007 MunJebel 4 Bianco which was one of my favorites from the orange wine dinner. Beautiful wine. I've had one or two other Cornelissens since then which did not excite me.

That said, while I went so far as to look for the MunJebel 4 on wine-searcher I didn't buy any and I keep buying Ollivier so I'm sure some conclusions can be drawn from that.
 
I had the wines when he started out.

There were a bunch of wines reasonably priced and the Magmas at over 100 Euros. Those were the special pricing for importers.

They reminded me of Peyra with pizazz, except the Magnas were a tad more expensive than anything coming out of Peyra's cellar.

I didn't find anything intriguing about the guy or the wine. This was years ago and he already had promotional DVDs. He explained to me how in an ideal year he would do nothing in his vines and just let nature take its course. I took him to be yet another crazy Belgian importer with a "vision" and was surprised over the years to see him become such a celebrity, albeit in a narrow circle of wine geeks. My initial impression of the guy was not compelling enough for me to want to follow the estate over the years and perhaps I have missed out on dramatic developments.

Cornelissen impressed me as a showman and I'm glad to hear some people enjoy his wines.
 
I've got both feet planted on the Dressner Plan (I usually only like it if Joe does, plus Australian wine) but it's good to also have one foot planted on the Yixin Plan (just in case).

I'm intrigued by the wines, by the concept of the wines, and the fact that I can't easily find them, and if I could, I probably wouldn't want to afford them the space in my locker allotted to the 2007 Chateauneuf-du-Papes I bought on futures. Having a DVD early-on in the marketing process isn't a turn-off to me, no more than if he had a blog, a twitter account, or a Facebook page dedicated to his wines. That's just the way it's done today throughout much of the wine world. It's worked well for the Scholium Project, why not Cornelissen?

Arnt Egil Nordlien's notes above make the regimen seem enticing and of at least pointy-headed intellectual interest and indicate that a certain amount of joy and pleasure can be found in drinking a bottle. I'm also grateful for Levi Dalton's comments, seeing as how he does enjoy them, but that I might not want to try it in his restaurant because they need a lot of time and contemplation.

-Eden (open to trying out any Cornelissen wines that pass my way, but content with being ecstatic with Occhipinti in the meantime)
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:

I didn't find anything intriguing about the guy or the wine. This was years ago and he already had promotional DVDs.
Click to expand...

Joe,

I work with a susumaniello producer who provided me with a proprietary flash drive (in the shape of a wine bottle) full of interactive information about the winery, set to a musical score. Yet susumaniello seems to be on nobody's lips but mine. I think it takes more than DVD promotional materials to build interest.
 
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