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Blaufrankisch: Opinions?
- Thread starter Yule Kim
- Start date
SteveTimko
Steve Timko
I tried a couple at the Age of Riesling tasting last year and found them either pretty good or green, nasty and vegetal. Nothing in between. They seem to be a good blending grape. It's a grape I want to explore.
Why would I want the former?Thor, for a frooty and delicious blau
But thanks much for the list. Thanks to all, in fact.
originally posted by georg lauer:
originally posted by Yule Kim:
Thanks for the info guys. I'll give you a report of the Schiefer after the tasting. Too bad it isn't a Moric tasting considering all the good reviews. But, hopefully I can add some additional datapoints to the WD till.
Do they have Ernst Triebaumer in the tasting? He is on a level with Moric. Not sure he has an importer to the US though.
Lemberger from Wuerttemberg is from the same grape, with increasingly better wines in recent years. But most likely even tougher to get in the States.
Oh, and regarding a comment above. They decidedly should not taste like a Zweigelt, totally different animal.
Unfortunately, it is just Schiefer wines. A narrow, but hopefully enlightening, introduction to blaufrankisch.
Arnt Egil Nordlien
Arnt Egil Nordlien
From the archives of something I wrote in October here on disorder:
-Blaufrnkisch can make great juice, but seems to be tricky. Too much wood makes it definitely dumb. But also several of the tank-versions I tasted seemed reductive in no nice way. Hans & Anita Nittnaus (biodynamic, soily wines, little oak), Prieler (modern, elegant, focused, too much oak on their top-cuvee), Weninger (harder, structured, concentrated, biodynamic), Schnberger (biodynamic, fruitier and simpler than the three others) was the best of the day. With Nittnaus' and Prielers Blaufrnkisch Leithaberg 2006 as my two favorites.
I tasted through 25-30 blaufrnkisch-wines. And these were my impressions. Schiefer was not present. Blaufrnkisch do not at all taste like zweigelt IMO. And IMO blaufrnkisch is an interesting grape. Leithaberg is also a very interesting area for this grape with a lot of dedicated growers. Leithaberg is not a vineyard rather a hill of several vineyards, but many growers now market their bottlings under the Leithaberg-name.
-Blaufrnkisch can make great juice, but seems to be tricky. Too much wood makes it definitely dumb. But also several of the tank-versions I tasted seemed reductive in no nice way. Hans & Anita Nittnaus (biodynamic, soily wines, little oak), Prieler (modern, elegant, focused, too much oak on their top-cuvee), Weninger (harder, structured, concentrated, biodynamic), Schnberger (biodynamic, fruitier and simpler than the three others) was the best of the day. With Nittnaus' and Prielers Blaufrnkisch Leithaberg 2006 as my two favorites.
I tasted through 25-30 blaufrnkisch-wines. And these were my impressions. Schiefer was not present. Blaufrnkisch do not at all taste like zweigelt IMO. And IMO blaufrnkisch is an interesting grape. Leithaberg is also a very interesting area for this grape with a lot of dedicated growers. Leithaberg is not a vineyard rather a hill of several vineyards, but many growers now market their bottlings under the Leithaberg-name.
Like Mollydooker.
My best experiences have been purplish, with a keenness and chilly vivacity to the fruit that reminds me of either something from the Alpine foothills (French side) or maybe some off-piste gamay, grown somewhere not in Beaujolais, then blended with something sorta red from northeastern Italy. I'd say more lagrein than zweigelt, though that's not really right either, and blaufrnkisch has definitely been less structured and clenched-fist-like than lagrein. Not as big. Not as self-important (not a knock against lagrein, by the way), which is why I keep looking over my shoulder at gamay. Overall I'd say they were light in the broad spectrum of possible weights, but then there's that rusticity that includes some structure, which hefts them up a bit. In a lineup, not knowing the bottles in front of me, I'd serve the generic blaufrnkisch after the generic gamay.
Not very specific, any of that, but it's in the general direction at least.
I don't at all like the ones where the new wood is overt, and it seems very easy for the two to come in tandem. The treatment genericizes the grape, even more than many others. But maybe I've just had badly-wooded ones.
My best experiences have been purplish, with a keenness and chilly vivacity to the fruit that reminds me of either something from the Alpine foothills (French side) or maybe some off-piste gamay, grown somewhere not in Beaujolais, then blended with something sorta red from northeastern Italy. I'd say more lagrein than zweigelt, though that's not really right either, and blaufrnkisch has definitely been less structured and clenched-fist-like than lagrein. Not as big. Not as self-important (not a knock against lagrein, by the way), which is why I keep looking over my shoulder at gamay. Overall I'd say they were light in the broad spectrum of possible weights, but then there's that rusticity that includes some structure, which hefts them up a bit. In a lineup, not knowing the bottles in front of me, I'd serve the generic blaufrnkisch after the generic gamay.
Not very specific, any of that, but it's in the general direction at least.
I don't at all like the ones where the new wood is overt, and it seems very easy for the two to come in tandem. The treatment genericizes the grape, even more than many others. But maybe I've just had badly-wooded ones.
Putnam Weekley
putnam
something 2:54 am
The wines I had at the Schiefer tasting were overall pretty good. I came away pretty impressed, though I don't think I'm going to become a blaufrankisch fanatic. There were four wines available, three from Austria and one from grapes harvested in Hungary.
2007 Konigsberg: Lots of brambly fruit (a mix of red and dark) on the palate with enough snappy tartness to keep it interesting. Not heavy, not cloying, but definitely the most fruit forward of the bunch, almost like a good beaujolais-village.
2007 Eisenberg: Very different from the Konigsberg. The fruit wasn't very pronounced, but what little I picked up was at the darker end of the spectrum. It has a very pronounced saline quality to it, maybe a little bit of iodine. Definitely a mineral driven wine that is not for the "frooty" set, but worth drinking.
2007 Pala: More concentrated. More serious. It was not bad. For some reason, I didn't make any mental notes about it.
2006 Reihburg: The "smoothest" of the bunch with a little bit of tannin on the finish. The most concentrated of the wines with the heaviest weight, but I wouldn't call it over-extracted. Not as fresh and fun as the the two cheaper wines, it wasn't overwhelming either and wouldn't be a bully at the dinner table. Maybe some time in bottle will help settle it down. I also heard this sees some new oak, but I didn't sense any vanilla or toastiness, but I also suspect I'm not super-sensitive to oak either, so YMMV.
Overall, I liked the wines. They were all very different, so I get why people say blaufrankisch has the potential to be very terroir-expressive. Enjoyable wines I would like to try more of in the future.
Now I just got to find some Moric.
2007 Konigsberg: Lots of brambly fruit (a mix of red and dark) on the palate with enough snappy tartness to keep it interesting. Not heavy, not cloying, but definitely the most fruit forward of the bunch, almost like a good beaujolais-village.
2007 Eisenberg: Very different from the Konigsberg. The fruit wasn't very pronounced, but what little I picked up was at the darker end of the spectrum. It has a very pronounced saline quality to it, maybe a little bit of iodine. Definitely a mineral driven wine that is not for the "frooty" set, but worth drinking.
2007 Pala: More concentrated. More serious. It was not bad. For some reason, I didn't make any mental notes about it.
2006 Reihburg: The "smoothest" of the bunch with a little bit of tannin on the finish. The most concentrated of the wines with the heaviest weight, but I wouldn't call it over-extracted. Not as fresh and fun as the the two cheaper wines, it wasn't overwhelming either and wouldn't be a bully at the dinner table. Maybe some time in bottle will help settle it down. I also heard this sees some new oak, but I didn't sense any vanilla or toastiness, but I also suspect I'm not super-sensitive to oak either, so YMMV.
Overall, I liked the wines. They were all very different, so I get why people say blaufrankisch has the potential to be very terroir-expressive. Enjoyable wines I would like to try more of in the future.
Now I just got to find some Moric.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I'm more familiar with the German versions, where the grape is known as Lemberger. In Germany, at least from the producers I taste, the wine usually bears a strong resemblance to Cabernet Franc from the Loire (e.g., Chinon, Bourgueil, etc.). Names to watch for include Schnaitmann, Karl Haidle (not to be confused with W. Haidle), and Dautel.
Tvrtko Cernos
Tvrtko Cernos
originally posted by Yixin:
overly fruity and without interest, i.e. like Zweigelt. What should good ones taste like?
Try an Umathum Ried Hallebuehl, or even their basic Zweigelt bottling, with a little age on it. Very little overt fruit, considerable structure and complexity.
georg lauer
georg lauer
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I'm more familiar with the German versions, where the grape is known as Lemberger. In Germany, at least from the producers I taste, the wine usually bears a strong resemblance to Cabernet Franc from the Loire (e.g., Chinon, Bourgueil, etc.). Names to watch for include Schnaitmann, Karl Haidle (not to be confused with W. Haidle), and Dautel.
I would add Aldinger (maybe the best right now), Wachtstetter and Count Neipperg (getting back to old form).
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Georg -- I don't know the wines of Aldinger and Wachstetter (but will watch for them). Neipperg definitely has been improving the last several years and in fact was in my original post until the last minute when I struck it because the improvement I've seen has only been in the last few vintages, i.e., not long enough to be sure.originally posted by georg lauer:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I'm more familiar with the German versions, where the grape is known as Lemberger. In Germany, at least from the producers I taste, the wine usually bears a strong resemblance to Cabernet Franc from the Loire (e.g., Chinon, Bourgueil, etc.). Names to watch for include Schnaitmann, Karl Haidle (not to be confused with W. Haidle), and Dautel.
I would add Aldinger (maybe the best right now), Wachtstetter and Count Neipperg (getting back to old form).
georg lauer
georg lauer
Georg -- I don't know the wines of Aldinger and Wachstetter (but will watch for them). Neipperg definitely has been improving the last several years and in fact was in my original post until the last minute when I struck it because the improvement I've seen has only been in the last few vintages, i.e., not long enough to be sure.
If you ever are in Boston you are welcome to try them. I also have some Triebaumer and Moric.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Thanks!!originally posted by georg lauer:
Georg -- I don't know the wines of Aldinger and Wachstetter (but will watch for them). Neipperg definitely has been improving the last several years and in fact was in my original post until the last minute when I struck it because the improvement I've seen has only been in the last few vintages, i.e., not long enough to be sure.
If you ever are in Boston you are welcome to try them. I also have some Triebaumer and Moric.
yule, I believe the Reihburg came from old vines (80+ years) and I suspect that's what made that wine seem concentrated. to me the fruit had a different texture, creamy - so I asked Weygandt why and that's when he told me about the vine age.
I liked the gruner they were pouring too - tried to buy some of that but they were temporarily out. I wanted to buy it to take to a friend's home because (1) it was a nice, bright, unoaked wine that (2) comes in burg shaped bottle - she starts groaning when she sees me pull out my german/alsace bottles - with this gruner I can drink a white I like and she'll think I've brought meursault.
I liked the gruner they were pouring too - tried to buy some of that but they were temporarily out. I wanted to buy it to take to a friend's home because (1) it was a nice, bright, unoaked wine that (2) comes in burg shaped bottle - she starts groaning when she sees me pull out my german/alsace bottles - with this gruner I can drink a white I like and she'll think I've brought meursault.
originally posted by Tvrtko Cernos:
originally posted by Yixin:
overly fruity and without interest, i.e. like Zweigelt. What should good ones taste like?
Try an Umathum Ried Hallebuehl, or even their basic Zweigelt bottling, with a little age on it. Very little overt fruit, considerable structure and complexity.
I thought the basic Umathum was over-extracted and unbalanced, but that was maybe up to 2006/2007. Lost interest in tasting after those.
originally posted by maureen: I wanted to buy it to take to a friend's home because (1) it was a nice, bright, unoaked wine that (2) comes in burg shaped bottle - she starts groaning when she sees me pull out my german/alsace bottles - with this gruner I can drink a white I like and she'll think I've brought meursault.
Tricky tricky. I guess it's going too far to buy a bottle of Meursault and decant all your German/Alsatian wine into it before going to her house?
Tom Glasgow
Thomas W Glasgow
That would be unethicaloriginally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by maureen: I wanted to buy it to take to a friend's home because (1) it was a nice, bright, unoaked wine that (2) comes in burg shaped bottle - she starts groaning when she sees me pull out my german/alsace bottles - with this gruner I can drink a white I like and she'll think I've brought meursault.
Tricky tricky. I guess it's going too far to buy a bottle of Meursault and decant all your German/Alsatian wine into it before going to her house?