Tasting in Beaujolais 2010

Joe:

In your Beaujolais introduction, you mention tasting Foillard under 'imperfect conditions.' Did you keep any notes, despite the imperfection?

Thanks.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Tasting in Beaujolais 2010Tasting in France Feb 2010. Part 1, Beaujolais

Other posts in this series are here:
Part 4, Dive Bouteille
Part 3, Chenin & Co.
Part 2, Nantais and some Touraine

[.....]

Desvignes

The new generation is more involved at Desvignes, but the wines still seem quite classic. They make wines to age, not to flatter young, although they do a semi-carbonic fermentation with submerged cap. They ferment and age exclusively in concrete. They pump over at the end of fermentation to get the last sugars dry. Their Côte du Py is from the upper part of the slope with schist and slate over “rotten rock,” with 60-90 y.o. vines. Since 2006 they only plough it. The Javernieres is the lower slope of the Côte du Py. It has a lot of clay and can bake solid in the summer, making it hard to work.

...
 
So there!

So the submerged cap--pump over--innoculated yeast thing is different, but I admit to holes in my understanding of what exactly they do.

Eric, do you know? Jeff?
 
In a move that was very useful to my understanding, we tasted in two big groups—folks who follow some version of a Lapierre cold maceration followed by a carbonic fermentation with a submerged cap, and those who do not cold soak. In the former, we tasted Georges Descombes, his son at Coquelet, Yvon Metras, and Julie Balagny. In the latter, Michel Tete, Coudert and Desvignes.

I would certainly continue to divide the world into these camps, but I would appeal to a winemaker for more details of their respective practices.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
So there!

So the submerged cap--pump over--innoculated yeast thing is different, but I admit to holes in my understanding of what exactly they do.

Eric, do you know? Jeff?
I am not a wine-maker. As an interested consumer, I believe that the point of a submerged cap was so that you did NOT have to do pump-overs or pigeage. (The point of pigeage is to circulate the skins in the juice so that you can extract tannins, color, and flavor from them. I have also read that, in a carbonic situation, pigeage serves to provide more 'food' to the yeasts after they've gobbled up the sugar down below.)
 
Apparently semi-carbonic: Balagny, Breton, Foillard, Lapierre, Tete, Thevenet (both)

Apparently not: Brun, Desvignes

Apparently not saying: Coquelet, Descombes, Metras

Supporting excerpts (in particular, there is much more to be had at Bertrand's site):

Brun... LDM: "We start with a tray table were we hand pick the clusters before de-stemming. We then place the juice in vats, do pigeages and macerate for 4 to 6 weeks depending on the cru. We then age the wine in cement vats or oak depending on the vintage and appellation."

Desvignes... LDM: "In the past years, Desvignes has been picking the fruit later than the other vignerons in the area with a mind to get fruit of optimal ripeness. The wine is vinified by the traditional cru Beaujolais method with a grille to keep the cap submerged. Recently, the fermentation has been longer and more controlled than in the past in order to extract the color and material that are the most obvious virtues of this wine." And: "We aim to make tannic, age worthy wines, so we let them ferment and age for a long time. We're not against semi-carbonic Beaujolais; it's just not our style. My father started making wines like this, and we've continued in his footsteps. As far as vinification, you can call it "conventional", since we use a Morgon starter yeast to for the fermentation."

Balagny... LDM: "Cold carbonic maceration, no remontage, no pigeage. whole cluster." WineTerroirs: "It is very important to start the maceration with cool grapes so that the yeasts have trouble starting and take their time. This is the Jules Chauvet method, and this slow start is decisive to get something tasty and refined. The fermentation starts with some CO2 put on top by precaution. The macerations last 3 weeks on average, without any stirring of the grapes, stomping or whatsoever, then the grapes, which have remained whole are pressed manually in this vertical press."

Breton... Kermit: "Vinification begins with carbonic maceration at low temperatures; Only indigenous yeasts are used; Fermentation lasts for a minimum of 15 days; Grapes are crushed in an old wooden press; Malolactic fermentation takes place in barrel and rests for 6-8 months"

Foillard... Kermit: "Traditional, whole cluster fermentation lasts from 3-4 weeks; Wines age from 6-9 months in oak (used barrels from Burgundy for the Morgon Côte du Py and 30-hectoliter foudres for the “Cuvée Corcelette”)" WineTerroirs: "The first stop for the grapes is a refrigerated room where its temperature will go down so as to begin the carbonic maceration in the best conditions. So, after several hours of cooling, the boxes of grapes are lifted with a fenwick, and Jean unloads them carefully into either a wooden open vat or one of these cement open vats. He has 11 of these cement vats, each with a 50-hectoliter capacity. Once in the vat, the load is soaked with CO2 and after 2 or 3 days there begins to be some fermentation, which creates CO2, so they stop adding any. Asked about any vinification difference between generic cuvées (lower-status Appellations) and specific terroirs, Jean Foillard says that for some time, he has decided to vinify everything the same way, in clear, there's no shortcut for the cheaper wines, the generic cuvées just come from the younger vines and less-interesting terroirs."

Lapierre... Kermit: "Indigenous yeasts only; Whole cluster fermentation à l’ancienne, maintained at low temperatures ; lasts for ten to twenty days" WallyWine: "Whole grapes, carefully sorted out, are put in wood tanks between 10° and 15°C, without SO2 or addition of yeast. The fermentation starts spontaneously in the grape juice at the bottom of the tank . Then, the fermentation in vats lasts approximately 10 to 20 days, according to the specificity of the vintage to extract the most fragrances and to fix the finest flavours. Then, when it’s time to press, the press and goutte juices of each cuvée are put together and alutriated. To finish, the “cuvées” are put in barrels of 2,281 L (these barrels are between 3 and 13 years old). Breeding and bottling...Our wines are raised in old oak, in thin sediments (without SO2), for approximately 9 months. At bottling time, we racked carefully and put together in a big tank different barrels and tuns."

Tete... LDM: "As a winemaker, he follows quasi-Burgundian techniques for his Beaujolais-Villages and Juliénas, with a semi-carbonic maceration where the cap of skins is kept submerged in the juice, and remontages break it several times a day. His top cuvée, called Cuvée Prestige, is made from a selection of his oldest vines, macerated in open vats with remontages and a half of it is barrel fermented and aged for 10 months."

C. Thevenet... Kermit: "Indigenous yeasts only to start fermentation; Whole cluster fermentation"

J. P. Thevenet... Kermit: "Indigenous yeasts only to start fermentation; Long fermentations, with whole clusters, for 15-25 days at low temperatures to allow for longest skin contact possible"
 
That's some fine work, Jeff.

Coquelet and Descombes certainly follow a Lapierre method. Metras sure tastes like it too.

The long cold soak, along with whole cluster stem retention, seem to be the biggest distinguishing features.
 
Inspired by Jeff's digging, crossing over with Cliff's thread:

Burgaud:

"Vinification is traditional: whole grape maceration in vats; duration varied according to the vintage and vineyard ('appellation'), without thermal treatment, without using specific yeasts, in order to obtain wines typical of the terroir.

"The wines are raised in vats or barrels for several months, depending on their character and source.

"They are lightly filtered (or not at all, depending on the cuve) before bottling, to avoid disturbing their equilibrium. Bottling is at the domaine from April to August."

Does "whole grape maceration" imply carbonic? In any event, per Sally Easton, his vinification is "traditional semi-carbonic." She also says he maintains temperature at 22-24 degrees Celsius, in contrast to his statement (assuming "thermal treatment" is temperature control).

This bit from Easton is new, for me:

"He takes some of the juice from the bottom of the vat, squeezed by the weight of grapes above, and sprays it over the top of the vat to oxygenate this small amount of juice for the natural yeasts to kick off the fermentation. To keep the mass of grape bunches moist during maceration he pumps over the juice daily, now without oxygen. He said the grapes “need humidity to have a good fermentation inside the berries.”

Easton's site has an informative page on carbonic maceration, by the way, with citations and a bibliography (the technically-minded here may wish to critique it), as well as profiles of Lapierre, Thivin, and Jadot's des Jacques Beaujolais unit, among others.

I was puzzled by the following sentence: "A temperature of 35°C will kill the berry after about eight days and this stretches to about two weeks at 15°C."
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

Does "whole grape maceration" imply carbonic? In any event, per Sally Easton, his vinification is "traditional semi-carbonic." She also says he maintains temperature at 22-24 degrees Celsius, in contrast to his statement (assuming "thermal treatment" is temperature control).

Wouldn't this make Dujac, Fourrier and plenty of others semi-carbonic?
 
Don't know. But I infer from your question that it is exclusively the covering with co2 that makes the maceration carbonic (or semi-carbonic).

What's the rationale for whole-grape maceration without carbon blanketing: is extraction thus obtained deemed to be superior?
 
I always thought whole cluster was traditional in Burgundy and the Rhône and de-stemming a rather new fangled technique. Now, can there be a layer of gas at the bottom of the fermentation tank, which would blur the distinction? I leave that to people who actually know something.
 
I gather that oxygen at the bottom of a tank topped with co2 (so that some early oxygen-fueled alcoholic fermentation ensues) is the reason most carbonic maceration is only semi-carbonic. Full carbonic requires complete control of the air space around the grapes and among them.

The 'carbonic' page on Easton's site is worth a read.
 
originally posted by Cliff:
I always thought whole cluster was traditional in Burgundy and the Rhône and de-stemming a rather new fangled technique. Now, can there be a layer of gas at the bottom of the fermentation tank, which would blur the distinction? I leave that to people who actually know something.

I don't think whole cluster and non de-stemming are the only alternatives. One can press the grapes with the stems included rather than let the weight of the clusters, do the work, allowing some fermentation to go on within the grape.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Gleaned from various sites
Apparently not: Brun, Desvignes
Thanks to Jeff, Terra Firma is firm once again.
I was puzzled by the following sentence: "A temperature of 35°C will kill the berry after about eight days and this stretches to about two weeks at 15°C."
Ian, if you think of a berry as yeast habitat, it makes sense. A temperature of 35°C will kill off the yeast, and at a temperature of 15°C, the yeast (and bacteria) will take their own sweet time consuming what material the berry has to offer.
 
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