Ppire finally

Saina Nieminen

Saina Nieminen
The Loire situation if Finland has always been dismal. But finally we have an importer who might start to import some Marc Ollivier/Domaine de la Ppire. They kindly invited me to the tasting (and let me take home the leftovers...).

We started with the Domaine de la Ppire Muscadet Severe-and-Mean Sur Lie 2009, the basic bottling if I understood correctly. I thought it was pretty awesome and quite what I hope to see in Muscadet (though, sadly, with so little having been available here, I don't know if my small sampling is representational, and hence I don't know if my idea of Muscadet typicality is true or not). But this had nice citrus and melon aromas; crisp, citric palate, but not in an unfriendly way - in fact it seemed to have a bit of richness to it. But despite the richness, it is focused, precise, electric and very moreish. Interminable finish of salt and citrus. Lovely.

The Domaine de la Ppire "Cuve Eden" Vieilles Vignes Muscadet Severe-and-Mean Sur Lie 2006 was richer, but certainly not the strangely fruity, malformed blob that the other '06s available here have been. A little tight and wonderfully racy, but comparatively full bodied. Despite some leesy richness, this is tangy and zingy. IIRC, this is from Gneiss (or was it Schist? I must remember to take writing materials next time I go to a "formal" tasting) soils rather than Granite as are his other wines. How do these different soils manifest themselves in the glass? Lovely.

The last wine, the Domaine de la Ppire "Clos Cormerais" Vieilles Vignes Muscadet Severe-and-Mean Sur Lie 2005, however was not really to my taste. There was an unpleasant, bitter, woody and lightly vanilla-like aroma; there was also an unpleasant, slight vanilla taste. It might be crisp and citric like I want Muscadet to be, but even though the oak notes aren't overpowering, I still feel that even slight oak seems to overpower this grape. I did not like this wine.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
The last wine, the Domaine de la Ppire "Clos Cormerais" Vieilles Vignes Musacdet Severe-and-Mean Sur Lie 2005, however was not really to my taste. There was an unpleasant, bitter, woody and lightly vanilla-like aroma; there was also an unpleasant, slight vanilla taste. It might be crisp and citric like I want Muscadet to be, but even though the oak notes aren't overpowering, I still feel that even slight oak seems to overpower this grape. I did not like this wine.

Never even heard of this one.
Best, Jim
 
I think it's acacia, not oak IIRC, but it's not my favorite either.

There is quite a bit about muscadet and soil in the archive, I believe.

If you had a 2009 in bottle, you had the early bottling of the basic/estate vineyard. The other wines are still in cuve.

The two rivers are the Svre and the Maine.
 
Severe-and-Mean

It might not be Otto - it might be Microsoft Word automatically correcting te spelling of Svre-et-Maine... It does those kinds of things...
 
originally posted by VS:
Severe-and-Mean

It might not be Otto - it might be Microsoft Word automatically correcting te spelling of Svre-et-Maine... It does those kinds of things...

Had the post been by a rock-hater, whom, admittedly, would have not been the best invite to this tasting, I thought it was one of the funniest lines I'd seen in a while.
 
Joe,

Thanks for the info. I must be badly conditioned to think that wood = oak. But whatever the wood, it didn't IMO work in this wine.

originally posted by VS:
Severe-and-Mean

It might not be Otto - it might be Microsoft Word automatically correcting the spelling of Svre-et-Maine... It does those kinds of things...

Victor, nothing of that sort (I've been using only Linux for years) - only a bad sense of humour.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
Joe,

Thanks for the info. I must be badly conditioned to think that wood = oak. But whatever the wood, it didn't IMO work in this wine.

originally posted by VS:
Severe-and-Mean

It might not be Otto - it might be Microsoft Word automatically correcting the spelling of Svre-et-Maine... It does those kinds of things...

Victor, nothing of that sort (I've been using only Linux for years) - only a bad sense of humour.
Ah, I never guessed in the context of Marc's wines.
 
Tried a bottle of the 2005 Cormerais last night (after Otto dissed it, the only market unsavvy enough to import it was Brazil).

The Wine Doctor says: "Cormerais is perhaps Ollivier's most unusual cuvée, this being a barrel-fermented, barrel-aged cuvée; the wood is 50% oak aged between 3 and 6 years and 50% acacia aged between 1 and 3 years. Made from vines planted in 1927, the character of this wine is certainly heavily influenced by the wood."

The mouth was pretty much as Otto described, though he didn't mention the appealing wet stone and white flower aromas. The sweetness was of the caramel kind, perhaps due to the wood, and the finish (no pun intended) clipped. It was weird. Melon with wood is like a chubby Audrey Hepburn.

What was Marc Ollivier trying to do here? Did he hope this wood would integrate over time? Was he trying to compete with chardonnay? SFJoe, any clue as to what he was thinking? Dressner and David Lillie must have blocked this from the tender and impressionable US market.
 
I like the wine, but the vintage I have is 2004, which is more interesting to my palate now. Joe didn't like the wine, or so Marc tells me.

I'm aging some to see what comes of them.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
I like the wine, but the vintage I have is 2004, which is more interesting to my palate now. Joe didn't like the wine, or so Marc tells me.
Marc's memory agrees with mine.

Perhaps Jeff Connell might have some insight for us?
 
Thanks for the TNs Otto.

Last night I had the wine which I understand has replaced the 'Eden' [relinquished that vineyard?] Les Gras Moutons 2009 and enjoyed it very much.

Nothing quirky about this wine and in the same vein, despite different terroir, as the Clos des Briords. In short right up there IMO with Pierre Luneau-Papin and Guy Bossard's best wines and simply fantastic value.I am currently drinking the latter's 05s and 06s so will look forward to comparing the 09 Moutons and Briords over the coming years.

I have one 06 Clos des Briords left and will compare that with my next 09.

Marc Ollivier's wines are not seen in the UK due probably to the majority being shipped to a highly appreciative market in the USA. I have found only one supplier here and my previous experience of his wines have all been on our annual summer visits to the Loire.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
The statute of limitations for thank yous has expired.
I get it Oswaldo having missed the earlier dates when I read the thread and the fact you had just picked it up again but, hey, 'thanks' can't be a bad thing and surely not subject to a statute of limitations of less than a year.

So thank you in turn for your TN and I probably will try the Cormerais [single bottle purchase] since I see I can pick up the 04. Your comments were just ambivalent enough to make it worth the [possibly weird] experience.
While I doubt that I would prefer it that way I think I would still like a chubby Audrey Hepburn.
 
originally posted by nigel groundwater:
Thanks for the TNs Otto.

Last night I had the wine which I understand has replaced the 'Eden' [relinquished that vineyard?] Les Gras Moutons 2009 and enjoyed it very much.

Nothing quirky about this wine and in the same vein, despite different terroir, as the Clos des Briords. In short right up there IMO with Pierre Luneau-Papin and Guy Bossard's best wines and simply fantastic value.I am currently drinking the latter's 05s and 06s so will look forward to comparing the 09 Moutons and Briords over the coming years.

I have one 06 Clos des Briords left and will compare that with my next 09.

Marc Ollivier's wines are not seen in the UK due probably to the majority being shipped to a highly appreciative market in the USA. I have found only one supplier here and my previous experience of his wines have all been on our annual summer visits to the Loire.

Very interesting, Nigel. I had wondered at the relative silence on Marc Ollivier's wines on your side of the pond. I will keep this in mind for what to bring the next time I travel to the UK. I have quite a few '04s left in my cellar from both M. Ollivier and Luneau-Papin and just got the '09 Gras Mouton recently.

Mark Lipton
 
Clos Cormerais is Marc's nod to the Muscadet tradition of aging wine in barrels made from the locally plentiful Acacia. There is not so much oak in the Pays Nantais, and growers certainly weren't going to pay for its importation. In the main, the tradition has passed into oblivion, though several producers continue to raise a small portion of their Muscadet in barrels, new and old, Oak or Acacia, to serve the local market.

A couple of Pepière lovers several years ago arranged for importation of a few bottles of some back vintages of Clos Cormerais. The Importer turned a blind eye and did the deal.

But on the main point, Otto, I'm so glad that you will have access to Domaine de la Pepière Muscadet. The 2009 is what I am currently drinking and it seems essential and sufficient.
 
originally posted by Jeff Connell:
But on the main point, Otto, I'm so glad that you will have access to Domaine de la Pepière Muscadet. The 2009 is what I am currently drinking and it seems essential and sufficient.

Are you able to purchase it in Ontario? I have not found it here and bring it in from elsewhere.
 
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