Dumbass Question

[Oswaldo Costa]

If typical German riesling doesn't undergo malolactic fermentation and has to be sulfured enough to kill the malolactic bacteria, is low/no sulfur German riesling basically an impossibility?

 

[Thor]

Assuming only residually-sugared wines in your concept of "typical German riesling" -- which isn't the case any more -- no, nothing's an impossibility. Winemakers can and do try all sort of crazy shit. That said, it seems bonkers to me, and my livelihood doesn't even depend on selling flted time bombs.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Thor:
Assuming only residually-sugared wines in your concept of "typical German riesling" -- which isn't the case any more -- no, nothing's an impossibility. Winemakers can and do try all sort of crazy shit. That said, it seems bonkers to me, and my livelihood doesn't even depend on selling flted time bombs.

How else could they inhibit malos?

 

[Thor]

Ask someone who was at the Dive if that seems to be an all-important motivation for 100% of the no-added-sulfur crew.

 

[slaton]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
How else could they inhibit malos?

Sterile filtration, which among other things removes lactic acid bacteria.

 

[SFJoe]

Wines below a certain pH (3.2?) are inhospitable to MLF bacteria, so rieslings, lots of chenin, melon, other high acid, cool climate things often just don't undergo MLF even after a long time in the cellar without SO2.

Pretty much any microbe can eat rs, though. Wines with rs either need SO2, filtration, or a vaccine-grade continuous cold chain.

I was going to except 16% california cab with rs from this--the alcohol may be high enough to stop the fermentation--but they probably get some SO2.

 

[Cory Cartwright]

Someone at the bar (a winemaker, I believe) told me that 17% was the magic number, but that may have been bullshit.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

Thanks, Joe, that's what I was looking for.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
Someone at the bar (a winemaker, I believe) told me that 17% was the magic number, but that may have been bullshit.

When I was a tyke, they thought the number was more like 14%.

I have seen Turley zins that claimed 17.6%, and I think even more. I think they inoculate with an uber-yeast, but I think that yeast was just a selected natural strain that is very alcohol-tolerant.

 

[Hank Beckmeyer]

Velcorin, I bet, is used a lot.

 

[Kay Bixler]

originally posted by SFJoe:
Wines below a certain pH (3.2?) are inhospitable to MLF bacteria, so rieslings, lots of chenin, melon, other high acid, cool climate things often just don't undergo MLF even after a long time in the cellar without SO2.

I heard a tale about a riesling with pH 2.82 and 20 ppm free SO2 going completely through malo on its own in a week while no one was looking.

 

[Yixin]

Sulfur is the most common candidate, but sterile filtration is used as well. I don't know many who are crazy enough to depend on low pH.

 

[Arjun Mendiratta]

originally posted by Kay Bixler:

I heard a tale about a riesling with pH 2.82 and 20 ppm free SO2 going completely through malo on its own in a week while no one was looking.

Oh my; it's almost enough to make you believe in true love again...

 

[Levi Dalton]

Of course some do the malo conversion on purpose. Like Clemens-Busch, for example.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Arjun Mendiratta:

originally posted by Kay Bixler:

I heard a tale about a riesling with pH 2.82 and 20 ppm free SO2 going completely through malo on its own in a week while no one was looking.

Oh my; it's almost enough to make you believe in true love again...

Actually, if I understood Joe correctly, if there's enough rs present to act as bacteria bait, malo can happen even in very low pH environment. 20 ppm is nothing, just 2 grams per liter...

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Arjun Mendiratta:

originally posted by Kay Bixler:

I heard a tale about a riesling with pH 2.82 and 20 ppm free SO2 going completely through malo on its own in a week while no one was looking.

Oh my; it's almost enough to make you believe in true love again...

Actually, if I understood Joe correctly, if there's enough rs present to act as bacteria bait, malo can happen even in very low pH environment. 20 ppm is nothing, just 2 grams per liter...

I fear I was unclear. If there's enough rs, the bugs can eat that without resorting to the comparatively meager fare of malic acid.