A long night of Freedom Pie

I second all the praise for Salils notes and concur with just about everything. Most memorable mentions to the following:

Pre Flight The Ameztoi and the Tarlant, for me this was fantastic "wine paired with wine". A great opening salvo that paved the way for many good things to come.

First Flight The Gaia Estate Thalassitis, unbelievable smokiness and ashy minerality. The 2007 Meinhard Forstreiter, I preferred this over the 06 for more of that wow factor and lasting intensity. The 06 being more rounded and subdued.

Second Flight Of course everything was overshadowed by the Cornelissens. Plenty of shock and awe. I preferred the decanted one that even gave up a little fruit about an hour later. Its hard to believe this stuff is even made with grapes. I cant imagine drinking an entire glass of this stuff, though I am quite grateful for the experience.
Not to leave out the Cappellanos, which I managed to hold on to throughout the rest of the evening. My preference here was for the 01. I found the 04 much riper and the 99 lacking the same complexity of the 01. These did not move at all during the evening, solidifying their youth and aging potential.

Third Flight I am of the preference to the 02 Baudry. I thought the 03 showed well considering the vintage but it completely fell apart after a half an hour or so in the glass.

Fourth Flight Uhhh, nothing really comes to mind two days later.

Fifth Flight The Gauby - If nothing else, this was a palate opener after so many more subtle wines. I would love to try this again some time, though it may be way over the top with a fresher palate. The Quinta do Noval This was the first time I have every experienced that amount of VA in a port. I was initially trying to attribute this phenomenon to something else, thanks Salil for confirming this. In essence there were two dessert/finishers of the evening.

It was great putting some faces to the names and again a special thanks to Levi for a wonderful evening.

Jason
 
Folks didn't bring more German wines, is why there weren't more. It became pretty clear when putting the dinner together that 5 or 6 similar dinners could be had, without repeating a wine.

There were a lot of Italian wines because the restaurant kicked in the southern Italian wines, and attendees brought along Barolo as well.

The dinner was never, ever planned to be all French.

I would suggest that if someone thinks that German pie Franco deserve more attention that they go about planning a dinner on the subject. I would love to be there.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Folks didn't bring more German wines, is why there weren't more. It became pretty clear when putting the dinner together that 5 or 6 similar dinners could be had, without repeating a wine.

There were a lot of Italian wines because the restaurant kicked in the southern Italian wines, and attendees brought along Barolo as well.

The dinner was never, ever planned to be all French.

I would suggest that if someone thinks that German pie Franco deserve more attention that they go about planning a dinner on the subject. I would love to be there.

Jet Blue to RDU can be as little as $100.
 
Jason - really nice notes too. Love that a wine paired with another wine. I never would have gone there without your mentioning such.
 
If the wines were going to be planned purely based on the proportion of ungrafted plantings in each region, we would have been drinking mostly Chilean and Argentinian cabernet.

As Levi said, there was no deliberate reason for the underrepresentation of Germany, but frankly I think it made good sense anyway. For whatever reason, I don't find the differences between grafted and ungrafted plantings nearly as dramatic among German rieslings as they are, say, with the French wines - in fact I probably wouldn't have any luck at all ID'ing them in a blind tasting, whereas the difference between grafted and ungrafted Baudry Chinon is dramatic. One possible reason for this is that limestone is not nearly as significant a component of most riesling terroirs as it is in the great French regions; Claude Bourguignon has a theory that vitis vinifera is "lime-loving" and particularly well-adapted to limestone terroirs, and therefore you would expect the switch to American rootstocks to have a bigger effect in a limestone region than elsewhere. Also, since a big factor in the difference between grafted and ungrafted vines is the extra degree or so of alcohol you get from the former, that's a difference easily obscured in rieslings that don't ferment all the way to dryness anyway.
 
btw, Sherry-Lehmann still has the 2007 Forstreiter in stock for $35. I hope some of you guys will pick some up, to stop me from buying all of it.
 
You know, we didn't discuss it, but it isn't as though there is merely a single alternative rootstock to ol' Frank. There are quite a few. And there could be more. And I wonder whether it might not be possible to select for some of Frank's better characteristics in a modern era? Just after phylloxera, there was a panic to get productivity and so on, and I don't know how often starving vignerons with blighted fields said, "Oh, bring on the delicacy and low alcohols!"

Unless there are GMO vines or targeted chemicals or sophisticated biologics, the Bretons are never going to have old vines franc de pied in Perrieres. It's clay, basically, and fdp won't live forever. Tony Hwang won't have fdp in Le Haut Lieu with 40 years on them either. In fact, there's a decent chance that the more of this sort of experimentation that goes on, the faster phylloxera will be able to move.

But it doesn't seem crazy to me to imagine hybrid rootstocks that bring the qualities we seek to the vines, and for many sites this is probably a better long term, large scale idea than jv fdp, although those experiments have shown the way.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:

But it doesn't seem crazy to me to imagine hybrid rootstocks that bring the qualities we seek to the vines, and for many sites this is probably a better long term, large scale idea than jv fdp, although those experiments have shown the way.

When I'd finished Christy Campbell's excellent history of phylloxera, I was left wondering what factor in v. vinifera makes their rootstock so susceptible to the damn bugs. After all, they seem to be almost unique in the plant world in having such a susceptibility (or were there other plants/crops equally affected? If so, what's happened to them?) It seems to me that knockout models or siRNA experiments should be able to cast some light on that question.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
You know, we didn't discuss it, but it isn't as though there is merely a single alternative rootstock to ol' Frank. There are quite a few. And there could be more. And I wonder whether it might not be possible to select for some of Frank's better characteristics in a modern era?

This was my initial reaction/response to the FdP experience. All this talk of clones and clonal selection, where is the same research at the other end?
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
GMO vines
One can dream, but considering the word "GMO" sends Europeans into a panic like a '50s sitcom housewife jumping on the table because she just saw a mouse, I dunno if this solution will have legs.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
originally posted by SFJoe:
GMO vines
One can dream, but considering the word "GMO" sends Europeans into a panic like a '50s sitcom housewife jumping on the table because she just saw a mouse, I dunno if this solution will have legs.
Oh, I mostly mention it to be annoying.
 
2007 Clos Saron Home Vineyard Pinot Noir (Sierra Foothills, California)
Ugh. Garish, alcoholic, headed straight to the dump bucket. What happened here?

That's a pity, the 2005 was quite good a year ago: "Pinot Noir Sierra Nevada 2005, Clos Saron very nice Pinot nose and flavor with distinct spice and some minerally fruit character, medium body, moderate dry tannins, some grip. Completely upends conventional notions about what grows best in the Sierras. From a tiny vineyard at 1700ft altitude on a steep hillside with low yields, granitic soil."

But your vintage does sound more like what one would expect from Sierra Pinot Noir.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Salil Benegal:
2008 Ameztoi "Rubentis" Getariako Txakolina (Getaria, Spain)
Don't think this is ungrafted.

I had contacted Andre Tamers, the importer, prior to the dinner:
Is the Ameztoi Rubentis rosado from ungrafted vines? I know that there was a vineyard that was torn up for a highway, but wasn't sure when it affected production (and whether the new source is also ungrafted).

Anyway, we've got the '08 in stock- can you give any background?

Here's his response:
You are correct, bureacracy saved this for one last year and the 09 is it. The "new" vineyard is similarly ungrafted of unknown age and not owned by Ameztoi but of very similar character.

This year they are definetely ripping it up but hopefully this other site will be as compelling.
 
Better late than never, here we go:

2008 Ameztoi "Rubentis" Getariako Txakolina (Getaria, Spain)
Good, we start with an orange wine, like a relay baton from the last Convivio mega tasting. Oxidative almond and cherry aromas. Lovely acidity, some light fizz (unsure if secondary fermentation or deliberate). Rich and satisfying, would love to cellar some of this, but I understand Keith Levenberg has cornered the market (and understand why he would).

Flight 1:
2005 Carl Schmitt-Wagner Longuicher Maximiner Herrenberg Riesling Kabinett (Mosel, Germany)
Awesome aromatics, mineral, flower, peach and almonds, but a Garden of Babylon, more than the sum. The sweetness is lovely, though it overwhelms the acidity just a wee. Still a beauty.

2008 Gaia Estate Thalassitis (Santorini, Greece)
Medicinal aromatics, good weight, nice bitter finish. Attractive. Santorini? I loved Joe Versus the Volcano. Was I the only one? I also hated Cinema Paradiso. Was I the only one? But I digress.

2007 Contrade di Taurasi (Cantine Lonardo) Grecomusc' (Campania, Italy)
Fascinating nose of gunpowder, fresh herbs and anis. Like reaching the crime scene right after bullets flying to and fro. Original, different, one of the wines of the night for me. Paradoxically, sometimes a defect (if this was), or even too much of a good thing, can make something vault into the category of special.

2008 La Sibilla Falanghina (Campi Flegrei, Campania, Italy)
Also herbs and anis, minus the gunpowder. Nice weight, good balance, could use a touch more acidity.

2007 Cantine Farro 'Le Cigliate' Falanghina (Campi Flegrei, Campania, Italy)
Wet stones, flowers and glycerin. Good acidity, but the sweetness has a candy aspect that I didnt love. Still, very nice wine. Little experience with this appellation, glad to learn that I should explore.

2007 Meinhard Forstreiter 'Tabor Reserve' Gruner Veltliner (Kremstal, Austria)
Minerals, flowers, chalk. Good weight, sprightly acidity. Very good.

2006 Meinhard Forstreiter 'Tabor Reserve' Gruner Veltliner (Kremstal, Austria)
Similar aromatics, with an additional yeasty note. Also good weight, but the acidity is not as attractive as that of the 2007.

Flight 2:
2007 I Vigneri di Salvo Foti "Vinudilice" Rosato (Sicily, Italy)
Oxidative almond aromas. An oxidative ros? Good weight and pleasant acidity. I quite liked.

2007 Tenuta delle Terre Nere "Prephylloxera, La Vigna di Don Peppino" Etna Rosso (Sicily, Italy)
Fabulous nose of cherry, pomegranate and medicinal herbs. Lively and spellbindingly different. Ends on a salty, sweaty note. Most surprising wine of the night for me and possibly my favorite, though maybe more from fascination than pleasure. If this had been the Magma, I would have thought now I understand what all the fuss is about. But it wasnt, so theres no fuss (that I know of) to understand. But Don Peppinos the man.

Frank Cornelissen "Magma" R 6va (Etna, Sicily, Italy) undecanted
Exotic aromas of gunpowder, herbs, spices and tar. Attractive sweetness, liked the mix of concentration and nimbleness. Intense but not at all difficult.

Frank Cornelissen "Magma" R 6va (Etna, Sicily, Italy) decanted for two hours
Fading fast. Burnt rubber aromas. So inferior to the freshly opened bottle that Im not sure if the two hour decant explains the entire difference.

2004 Cappellano Otin Fiorin "Pi Franco Michet" Barolo from magnum
Lovely leather, cherry, violet, and licorice aromas. Rich mouth feel, powerful acidity, should be great in a decade.
2001 Cappellano Otin Fiorin "Pi Franco Michet" Barolo from magnum
Similar aromatics but much more subdued/closed. Try in five years.
1999 Cappellano Otin Fiorin "Pi Franco Michet" Barolo from magnum
Beginning to oxidize and somewhat fruit deprived. Nobody at my table seemed too keen on it, but at Salils table it sounded like they were drinking a different wine.

It was generous of Kevin McKenna to bring three magnums of Cappellano, a producer I place in the highest firmament. The 07 and 08 Cappellano barrel samples that I was fortunate enough to taste in Serralunga last November were among my most memorable wine experiences ever, so I had high expectations for this trio. Impossibly high. I remember Augusto Cappellano imitating the sounds of wines fermenting and remarking how they were happiest when still in the botti, becoming angry when bottled. These appeared to be terrific wines that werent tasting terrific on this day because they were either too young or too closed or, in the case of the 1999, possibly a little oxidized. Compared to the magic of that experience, here the genie had been bottled. SO2 also plays a role in making the genie groggy.

1998 Marchesi Alfieri San Germano Pinot Nero (Monferrato, Italy)
Lovely, rich cherry and leather aromas. Attractive acidity and light bitterness. Extremely dry, attractively uncompromising. Found this quite interesting and perhaps liked it better than others at my table. It was also the beneficiary of no expectations.

Flight 3, all Loire Valley Cabernet Franc:
2007 Catherine & Pierre Breton "Franc de Pied" Bourgueil
From gravel under a layer of sand. Cherry, leather, funk. Nice enough, but nothing special. Scott says better nose than palate.

2002 Catherine & Pierre Breton "Franc de Pied" Bourgueil
Corked. Damaged. Dommage.

2005 Charles Joguet Chinon "Les Varennes du Grand Clos"
2007 was the last vintage. Very tight. Good structure, but not giving much at this point.

2005 Bernard Baudry Chinon Franc de Pied
This was lovely, with rich, ripe pomegranate, excellent acidity and balance, ending on a coup de grace savory note.
2003 Bernard Baudry Chinon Franc de Pied
Wonderful leather and funk aromas, forward and ripe. Rich and balanced, despite a touch of heat (all three were labeled 12.5% but ze buds whispered no).
2002 Bernard Baudry Chinon Franc de Pied
Best of an excellent trio, the fruit augmented by an evanescent smattering of armpit and barnyard laced with just the right amount of acid, making the yings every bit a match for the yangs. An uppercut to the chinon, and one of the better cab francs that Ive tried. I generally prefer Baudry fdp to Breton fdp, and David Lillie says this may be because at Baudry theres limestone under the sand, whereas at Breton theres gravel. Lucinda Williams Car Wheels on a Gravel Road has some great songs on it.

Flight 4:
1995 Antonio Bernardino Paulo da Silva 'Reserva Velho Tinto' Colares Chitas (Sintra, Portugal)
By this point I was beginning to tank, thanks in part to continual distraction from the food, which made my palate a moving target, and the lively conversation compromising my attention. But most damaging was the impossibility of squirting undesired sips in a graceful arc towards the central bucket, partly for fear of hitting David Lillie, who was sitting directly across. This Colares, my first (I brought it inviolate) was definitely no carbonic fruit salad, as E.T. (the extraterroirist) would say. Cherry, leather and eucalyptus were there for the sniffing but vanished in the mouth thanks to vigorous acidity that overwhelmed the retro fruit. Came across as old world, austere, unyielding (you catch my drift), yet admirable in its aquiline severity. Was it compromised? Hard to tell with no internalized Platonic Colares to compare it to.

1995 Quinta do Ribeirinho (Luis Pato) P Franco Bairrada (Beiras, Portugal)
Rich nose with cherry and spices. Lovely tannins, ideal acidity, perfect balance. A thing of beauty. Portuguese man o war.

1996 Quinta do Ribeirinho (Luis Pato) P Franco Bairrada (Beiras, Portugal)
This felt both more subdued and decadent, an odd combination, perhaps because the riper fruit was still emerging from closure. This was a donation from Luis Pato for our tasting, and I wonder why he chose this vintage rather than, say, the 1995.

2004 Atalayas de Golban Ribera del Duero (Castilla y Leon, Spain)
Cherry and coconut, like American oak without the dill. Tasted very modern and garish in (and after) present company. Little did I know that this was a harbinger.

Flight 5:
2007 Domaine Gauby "Muntada" Ctes du Roussillon Villages Rouge (Roussillon, France)
Didnt like this but didnt write down why.

2007 Clos Saron Home Vineyard Pinot Noir (Sierra Foothills, California)
Vanillin diluted in alcohol. Horrible.

2004 Cantina Santadi "Terre Brune" Carignano del Sulcis (Sardinia, Italy)
With appropriate inspiration, I can whip out a one word TN: yuck.

2004 Cantina del Taburno "Bue Apis" Aglianico del Taburno (Campania, Italy)
Dishrag yuck. Bueshit.
2003 Cantina del Taburno "Bue Apis" Aglianico del Taburno (Campania, Italy)
Charred yuck. Ditto.

1991 Quinta do Noval "Nacional" Porto (Douro Valley, Portugal)
Ripe plum and figs. Not multilayered, but lovely, despite the mercy killing level of alcohol and my sensory degradation.

A spectacular event. The excellence and sheer volume of the wines, coupled with the superbly flavorful food and lively conversation, competed too much to allow optimal appreciation of any of the parts. To more properly evaluate this much wine, Id have to spit, but then the affair would have become more stilted. I was the only person not ITB at my table, and others seemed to be handling the cascade of pleasure with professional ease. Perhaps I would have been better off at Salils table, discussing filigrees of poop. But it was fun to sit between Brad Kane and Scott Reiner, and I wouldnt want to have given that up. All in all, an embarrassment of riches.
 
Nice notes Oswaldo... the disparity between our portions of the '99 Cappellano (from the same bottle!) is most strange. I agree with you that Breton's franc de pied never seems to reach the heights of Baudry's (or Joguet's), nice to know why. One correction... it's the Tarlant Champagne I've been hoarding, not the Ameztoi. Sorry you seem to have missed that one but take my word it rocks! I've actually not cared so much for the Ameztoi, which always seems more enjoyable once the fizz (which is indeed intentional) goes flat.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
the disparity between our portions of the '99 Cappellano (from the same bottle!) is most strange.

Indeed! Perhaps Brad and Scott can chime in with their impressions...
 
Just to mention that the Magma had been decanted for three and ahalf hours.

Also that Joe Salamone should be credited with bringing the '04 Cappellano magnum.
 
I noted these attendees:

Kevin McKenna
Mike Wheeler
Scott Reiner
David Lillie
Brad Kane
Oswaldo Costa

Keith Levenberg
Salil Bengal
Jeff Grossman
Robert Dentice
Joe Salamone

The Fabulous Miss Lee Campbell
Jason A & Eileen
Seth Hill
Josh Greene
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I noted these attendees:

Kevin McKenna
Mike Wheeler
Scott Reiner
David Lillie
Brad Kane
Osvalda Costa

Keith Levenberg
Salil Bengal
Jeff Grossman
Robert Dentice
Joe Salamone

The Fabulous Miss Lee Campbell
Jason A & Eileen
...but I know there were one or two more folks at this table

The others would be:
Seth Hill
Josh ??
 
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