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Frank and his tanks (Anfore)
- Thread starter Matteo Mollo
- Start date
Matteo Mollo
Matteo Mollo
I had a very interesting lunch with mr. cornelissen this afternoon in which i really got to understand him a bit more. His wines make a lot more sense now and they continue to be very intriguing. I am working a long shift as we speak so i will post some more thoughts and some notes from the interaction/wines as soon as i can.
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Truth be told, I was most intruigued by a comment made awhile back describing Frank's wines as being "baroque". That seems rather ironic given that "baroque" to me means overly decorative and/or overly manipulated. I probably missed the nuance
Definitively Yes.
According to your post, I should have used baroque to qualify wines like Modern Pavie or SQN Pinot or something like that.
Sorry to say that I'd rather use maked-up or overdone. Certainly not baroque.
I have too much respect for the Baroque movement to do so.
Read Wlfflin and you'll find that Baroque might have been one of the first manifestation of modern existentialism. Deliberately favouring invidual over collective, sensuality over intelect, in reaction to protestant austerity.
So Yes I would say you obviously badly missed the nuance...
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Truth be told, I was most intruigued by a comment made awhile back describing Frank's wines as being "baroque". That seems rather ironic given that "baroque" to me means overly decorative and/or overly manipulated. I probably missed the nuance
Definitively Yes.
According to your post, I should have used baroque to qualify wines like Modern Pavie or SQN Pinot or something like that.
Sorry to say that I'd rather use maked-up or overdone. Certainly not baroque.
I have too much respect for the Baroque movement to do so.
Read Wlfflin and you'll find that Baroque might have been one of the first manifestation of modern existentialism. Deliberately favouring invidual over collective, sensuality over intelect, in reaction to protestant austerity.
So Yes I would say you obviously badly missed the nuance...
I agree, with a quibble. The Baroque was indeed a massive counterattack by the Vatican against the advances of the Reformation, and aimed to seduce the wavering faithful with awe-inspiring displays of the power of (the Catholic) God. As a reaction to Protestant austerity, it inevitably values sensuality more than the Protestants did, but it's not so much a carnal or decadent sensuality (the kind we all presumably prefer) but a sublimated sensuality in the service of ecstatic devotion. But my quibble is with favoring the individual over the collective. Foucalt showed quite beautifully and compellingly, in The History of Sexuality, how the Christians triggered a millenium and a half of obscurantism by overturning Greek ideals, replacing the Greek emphasis on Cura Sui (care of the self, or self-love) with the Christian emphasis on Cura Dei (care of God, or love-of-God). I see ALL Christian movements as competing visions of Cura Dei, none of which allow for the individuality that only secularity permits. Since the Baroque movement took place as the Enlightenment was gathering steam, it could appear to be entwined with favoring the individual over the collective, and could appear to be a precursor to Existentialism, but I don't believe that was actually a part of it.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Brzme:
Oswaldo,
I see the "pense libertine" - Gassendi, Cyrano de Bergerac... - and in a way, Pascal as a direct consequence of the debate induced by the Baroque era in France.
And therefore as the beginning of "une pense de l'individu".
I might be wrong though.
If it's by opposition, I agree with you. No doubt the Baroque, rich in esthetics but a step back for the Enlightenment, generated considerable opposition and, as such, helped speed the general move towards humanism.
PS: one of your 05 Cote Rotie VVs to be opened in the next week or two - any advice on decanting, etc.?
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
PS: one of your 05 Cote Rotie VVs to be opened in the next week or two - any advice on decanting, etc.?
OMG! are you sure you want to do this?
Most 05s are soooo closed and austere right now.
If you have to do this, don't decant it. It will make it even worse. Open it and leave it like this as long as possible before drinking (2,3 maybe even 4 or 5 days).
Joel Stewart
Joel Stewart
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Truth be told, I was most intruigued by a comment made awhile back describing Frank's wines as being "baroque". That seems rather ironic given that "baroque" to me means overly decorative and/or overly manipulated. I probably missed the nuance
Definitively Yes.
According to your post, I should have used baroque to qualify wines like Modern Pavie or SQN Pinot or something like that.
Sorry to say that I'd rather use maked-up or overdone. Certainly not baroque.
I have too much respect for the Baroque movement to do so.
Read Wlfflin and you'll find that Baroque might have been one of the first manifestation of modern existentialism. Deliberately favouring invidual over collective, sensuality over intelect, in reaction to protestant austerity.
So Yes I would say you obviously badly missed the nuance...
My mistake for having automatically envisioned Baroque art, over the movement itself. Sorry, I'm a painter/printmaker, so that's how I initially took your comment. Baroque as an art term automatically conjures up artists like Rubens, Bernini etc., whose work I find excessive. Thanks for the background on the movement, Eric, because indeed I missed the nuance, and your original comment says something quite different to me now.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
PS: one of your 05 Cote Rotie VVs to be opened in the next week or two - any advice on decanting, etc.?
OMG! are you sure you want to do this?
Most 05s are soooo closed and austere right now.
If you have to do this, don't decant it. It will make it even worse. Open it and leave it like this as long as possible before drinking (2,3 maybe even 4 or 5 days).
OMG, now I'm having second thoughts! Since I got four bottles, I was going to open one now and wait many years for the others, but perhaps I should wait longer for the first one too! OK, that does it, will wait (sniff).
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
It was such a baroque gesture, Oswaldo.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by SFJoe:
This is a most satisfactory board.
Something to which you contribute inordinately.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
It was such a baroque gesture, Oswaldo.
I'm partial to oysters.
Aw, shucks.originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by SFJoe:
This is a most satisfactory board.
Something to which you contribute inordinately.
(And that wasn't an oyster joke)
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
Ugh! No!
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by SFJoe:
This is a most satisfactory board.
Something to which you contribute inordinately.
Inordinately...
How about making the backhanded compliment more straight up: "Which would have so much less on it to wade through if you weren't so articulate!"
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by SFJoe:
This is a most satisfactory board.
Something to which you contribute inordinately.
Inordinately...
How about making the backhanded compliment more straight up: "Which would have so much less on it to wade through if you weren't so articulate!"
Aw, shucks!
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
Get back to your misshapen pearls. 'Swine, here.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
Puns are a contagion.
I apologize to everyone.originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Ugh! No!