It's true that there's a lot of really boring beef, but it's not solely tied to diet (for example, I find most French beef unbelievably dull, no matter how it's raised). Part of that's a matter of cultural referents, and people raised with different styles of beef will have different preferences. But I think it would be hard to argue that there's not an exponential difference in complexity between the beef served at, say, Etxebarri and the beef most Americans eat, in favor of the former. And while I bow to no one in adoration for the blessed cornucopia of pigfruit, that was definitely among the most remarkable pieces of animal flesh I've ever eaten. The finest Ibrico, supreme emperor of hams and what I'd like my mummy to be wrapped in after a lardo embalming, included.
It's not just for vignerons anymore
- Thread starter SFJoe
- Start date
Though not often, I have had some grass-fed beef, and I can't say that it really did much for me. I'm fairly confident that if I had USDA Prime grass-fed beef that had been dry aged, I probably find it significantly more appealing. But isn't that kind of like saying that if I had Ch. Petrus I'd probably like Merlot?
Mark Lipton
A steak is a steak. Beef, straight. A burger is more than that and a good one much more.
Enjoyment of beef really depends on all the factors of quality, freshness or proper aging, the cut,
the preparation, etc. So much can make a difference and does that it's reasonable to dismiss most
beef. What matters most of course is what kind of delivery system does it make for fat.
Done right it can be an excellent vehicle for animal fat.
Like cabernet, I don't blame the thing itself. I blame the way it's been mistreated.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
Yes, even doing it yourself in the fridge for a few days can noticeably improve the flavor.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Big difference in texture, too, although I suppose that may disappear with ground beef.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
All the French people I know rave about the beef in the US.
I do remember an animated conversation with Chef Viron at the late, lamented Cte-Rtie in which he decried his native beef while lauding ours (though his direst complaints were about French vegetable cookery). It was an interesting perspective, albeit I have to say that he felt more strongly about it than I do, and as with anything it's a generalization based on personal preference.
All I know is that, should Mr. Lipton come to visit, he's probably getting a burger.
All I know is that, should Mr. Lipton come to visit, he's probably getting a burger.
Cole Kendall
Cole Kendall
Once was enough.
Chris Weber
Chris Weber
I'm in that camp too. I like burgers (unfortunately I like everything), but rarely eat them or any other beef. They, like Cabernet, are well down the list of what I'm looking for.
And I'll never order a steak in a restaurant.
Of course, when you talk about variety meats, then sure, I love beef tripe, for example, and really enjoyed tte de veau the one time I could find it. But steak is indeed pretty pedestrian.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Ordering steaks at a restaurant, assuming a good quality steak, is a good idea, I think, because their grills get hotter than mine.
Hamburgers: yes.
Grass-fed beef is definitely tastier than grain-fed, but proper aging will improve both a lot.
Hamburgers: yes.
Grass-fed beef is definitely tastier than grain-fed, but proper aging will improve both a lot.
Namedropper.
But really, what are the choices for the average American (and I realize this place is a little like Lake Wobegone)? Beef. Chicken. Pook. Even lamb, tasty as it is, is outside the mainstream of American thought. Which is why I am campaigning for the Sausage State, the only one that can truly represent these 50 united-in-diversity States of America.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
Oh gosh, where to begin.
1. McDonald's fries are awesome, about this there can be no debate.
2. A George Foreman grill is an entirely unacceptable way to cook a steak. If you can't use charcoal, the next best thing is a flat cast-iron pan on high heat, lubricated with beef fat.
3. Grass-fed beef is neither better nor worse than grain-fed; it's best to look at it as a different animal, like lamb or venison. Sometimes you want one and sometimes the other. It does require more skill and luck to cook as it is inherently tougher, however.
4. Peter Luger will always be the king of steak. No matter how many times you taste a steak and think it comparable to Peter Luger, the next time you have a Luger steak you realize how wrong you were.
1. McDonald's fries are awesome, about this there can be no debate.
2. A George Foreman grill is an entirely unacceptable way to cook a steak. If you can't use charcoal, the next best thing is a flat cast-iron pan on high heat, lubricated with beef fat.
3. Grass-fed beef is neither better nor worse than grain-fed; it's best to look at it as a different animal, like lamb or venison. Sometimes you want one and sometimes the other. It does require more skill and luck to cook as it is inherently tougher, however.
4. Peter Luger will always be the king of steak. No matter how many times you taste a steak and think it comparable to Peter Luger, the next time you have a Luger steak you realize how wrong you were.
Now I'll be the contrarian and object to any praise of McD's fries. They haven't been good since the cooking medium changed, the powdered salt is nasty, and they're never cooked enough. Though it's probably true that my sampling size isn't all that high. They're better than In-n-Out's, but that's not difficult.
Foreman was a good boxer. Not so much with the culinary tech.
More important than grass/grain-fed (strictly on taste, not environmental/agribusiness concerns) are the age and proximity/transport of the meat, for sure. And the cooking.
Luger may or may not be the king of American steak (I've yet to experiment with whatshisname in Marin), though I'll note that I've had sourced-down-the-road steaks back home in northern Minnesota that I remember as being just as good (clearly, double-blind trials are required*) but the chuletn at Extebarri was a clear margin better than Luger.
*You're welcome, Levi.
Foreman was a good boxer. Not so much with the culinary tech.
More important than grass/grain-fed (strictly on taste, not environmental/agribusiness concerns) are the age and proximity/transport of the meat, for sure. And the cooking.
Luger may or may not be the king of American steak (I've yet to experiment with whatshisname in Marin), though I'll note that I've had sourced-down-the-road steaks back home in northern Minnesota that I remember as being just as good (clearly, double-blind trials are required*) but the chuletn at Extebarri was a clear margin better than Luger.
*You're welcome, Levi.
scottreiner
scott reiner
as to quality of meat, i agree that there are good examples of both grass and grain fed. in the end, know your butcher: http://www.the-meathook.com/
whilst i love lugers, it continually pisses me off that they slice the steak. lately, i have REALLY been enjoying the strip house's bone in rib eye. they will allow corkage for $25 a bottle, limit 2 bottles, but you can get by the limit... because, as at all steakhouses in nyc, he wine list sucks.*
although, the burger at lugers is unmatched...
*however, diner in williamsburg, tom mylan of the meathook's last gig, has some amazing steaks and a wine list that would make a disorderly proud. it's just not strictly a steakhouse...
whilst i love lugers, it continually pisses me off that they slice the steak. lately, i have REALLY been enjoying the strip house's bone in rib eye. they will allow corkage for $25 a bottle, limit 2 bottles, but you can get by the limit... because, as at all steakhouses in nyc, he wine list sucks.*
although, the burger at lugers is unmatched...
*however, diner in williamsburg, tom mylan of the meathook's last gig, has some amazing steaks and a wine list that would make a disorderly proud. it's just not strictly a steakhouse...
I wouldn't consider the Hidden Kitchen a restaurant, Sharon - more like a place where they sometimes feed a few fortunate people... And the most American element in Spring is basically the cook, isn't it? That's similar to Cornucopia in Madrid. What I meant was recognizable and reasonably genuine American regional food. And Matt Scott, who trained at Bayona in NO, doesn't just fix a thorougly edible fil gumbo - he makes the best fried green tomatoes with shrimp rmoulade on this side of the ocean, and a very tasty blackened tuna (no catfish around here).
Considering that Madrid is the world's No. 1 jamn ibrico-consuming town, and that you can find a bocadillo de jamn ibrico practically on every city block (and one made of Joselito ham in a couple dozen places), the fact that a Bronxite (who used to run the officers' mess hall in the old American air base of Torrejn) has become a local legend by selling grilled hamburgers might give you a hint that these are pretty respectable burgers. And they are.
And steak-wise there's even better than Etxebarri. One of the funny side effects of this Spain boom thing: they came to eat at El Bulli and wound up discovering that beef is good here, and the best steaks may be those of El Capricho.
lars makie
lars makie
I just remembered reading in Bill Buford's Heat that Dario Cecchini, the Tuscan butcher he worked for, said the beef in his store was actually from Spain. That he felt it was superior to the beef in the area.