Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Love these quips.
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Remache Reminisce
- Thread starter Levi Dalton
- Start date
Love these quips.
lars makie
lars makie
Don't ever change.originally posted by Thor:
It's what I do.
Cory Cartwright
Cory Cartwright
ITB problems forced me to quit running, so I can see the connection.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
This story is a warning to all faculty never to serve on committees of tenure and promotion, or if so serving, to vote only in favor of granting tenure. Alternatively, if serving on a hiring committee, never hire someone with a Harvard degree.
I question the long-term survival of the tenure system as we know it. Between awful incidents like this one and the growing problem of keeping outside letters of evaluation confidential, I cannot see how we can continue to operate. I know of several departments that have had to dispense with letters from external evaluators because their University lawyers had declared that they couldn't assure the letter writers that their letters would be kept confidential. The upshot was that the letters were so namby-pamby in their critiques that they were no longer of any real use.
Sad, sad,
Mark Lipton
I agree that the tenure system is in danger, though I do not think that this incident or the status of outside evaluations is the reason. Anyone who ever thought that evaluations, either inside or outside, could be kept confidential in the case of lawsuits, was disabused of that I think twenty years ago. I nevertheless do see with some regularity outside evaluations that clearly damn with faint praise. The problem with the tenure system is economic. There are more Ph.Ds than jobs to go around; scholarship, which is now largely the justifier of tenure, requires reduced course loads and (yes, yes, yes) decent compensation, while the courses must be taught and may more cheaply be taught by untenured faculty. It is nearly the case already that tenure is now reserved for an upper-class of academics. I expect, alas, that that will be more really true sooner rather than later.
Tenure, however, guarantees far more than freedom of speech in one's scholarship. It guarantees freedom to be an irritant to one's employer. It's loss will make universities more corporate places.
Kevin Roberts
Kevin Roberts
And as the academic job market continues to be supressed by economic factors, the Ph. D. glut only increases. The more schools can get by paying adjunct wages the less incentive they have to offer full-time employment.
My wife got her Ph. D. in December, this spring she's adjuct teaching 3 classes at 2 different schools (driving 450 miles a week in the process) while on the academic job market, all for the princely pay of 7K. She's had some limited success so far on the job market, but with no job offers in hand (as of yet) it's pretty depressing out there. No fun at all.
Ug.
My wife got her Ph. D. in December, this spring she's adjuct teaching 3 classes at 2 different schools (driving 450 miles a week in the process) while on the academic job market, all for the princely pay of 7K. She's had some limited success so far on the job market, but with no job offers in hand (as of yet) it's pretty depressing out there. No fun at all.
Ug.
Doug Padgett
Doug Padgett
I don't letter-writing is remotely the prime cause of tenure's demise. The economic advantages of non-tenured faculty in a bloated labor market are simply too attractive.
At certain universities (not mine so much yet) this is already creating a a caste system of sorts, with an under-class of relatively long-term "temp" instructors who have big chips on their shoulders.
Yes. It also is the sole guarantor of a decent paycheck as a college instructor of any level.
I'm in only a slightly better position, myself. I was in a much better position as a term prof. and that ended with the recession. Now I make slightly less per course than I made as a graduate student. I have a second, non-academic job ITB.
p.s. and I still love it...but love only gets you so far.
Yes. Chasing fewer and fewer dollars per student or school.There are more Ph.Ds than jobs to go around; scholarship
It is nearly the case already that tenure is now reserved for an upper-class of academics. I expect, alas, that that will be more really true sooner rather than later.
At certain universities (not mine so much yet) this is already creating a a caste system of sorts, with an under-class of relatively long-term "temp" instructors who have big chips on their shoulders.
Tenure, however, guarantees far more than freedom of speech in one's scholarship. It guarantees freedom to be an irritant to one's employer. It's loss will make universities more corporate places.
Yes. It also is the sole guarantor of a decent paycheck as a college instructor of any level.
My wife got her Ph. D. in December, this spring she's adjuct teaching 3 classes at 2 different schools (driving 450 miles a week in the process) while on the academic job market, all for the princely pay of 7K. She's had some limited success so far on the job market, but with no job offers in hand (as of yet) it's pretty depressing out there. No fun at all.
I'm in only a slightly better position, myself. I was in a much better position as a term prof. and that ended with the recession. Now I make slightly less per course than I made as a graduate student. I have a second, non-academic job ITB.
p.s. and I still love it...but love only gets you so far.
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I agree that the tenure system is in danger, though I do not think that this incident or the status of outside evaluations is the reason. Anyone who ever thought that evaluations, either inside or outside, could be kept confidential in the case of lawsuits, was disabused of that I think twenty years ago. I nevertheless do see with some regularity outside evaluations that clearly damn with faint praise. The problem with the tenure system is economic. There are more Ph.Ds than jobs to go around; scholarship, which is now largely the justifier of tenure, requires reduced course loads and (yes, yes, yes) decent compensation, while the courses must be taught and may more cheaply be taught by untenured faculty. It is nearly the case already that tenure is now reserved for an upper-class of academics. I expect, alas, that that will be more really true sooner rather than later.
Your comments are spot on, Prof (big surprise). We've seen academics go the way of corporate America with all the temp help ("Visiting Assistant Professor" and "Lecturer") that has supplanted tenure track positions. Even in my relatively employable field, we see the disconnect between the need for graduate student assistants in research and the need for more Ph.D.s at the end of the road. Medical schools, for example, do a much better job of matching supply and demand.
Mark Lipton
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
I advocate full tenure for Chris Coad.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by lars makie:
Don't ever change.originally posted by Thor:
It's what I do.
Quippity-quop, quippity-quop.
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I agree that the tenure system is in danger, though I do not think that this incident or the status of outside evaluations is the reason. Anyone who ever thought that evaluations, either inside or outside, could be kept confidential in the case of lawsuits, was disabused of that I think twenty years ago. I nevertheless do see with some regularity outside evaluations that clearly damn with faint praise. The problem with the tenure system is economic. There are more Ph.Ds than jobs to go around; scholarship, which is now largely the justifier of tenure, requires reduced course loads and (yes, yes, yes) decent compensation, while the courses must be taught and may more cheaply be taught by untenured faculty. It is nearly the case already that tenure is now reserved for an upper-class of academics. I expect, alas, that that will be more really true sooner rather than later.
Your comments are spot on, Prof (big surprise). We've seen academics go the way of corporate America with all the temp help ("Visiting Assistant Professor" and "Lecturer") that has supplanted tenure track positions. Even in my relatively employable field, we see the disconnect between the need for graduate student assistants in research and the need for more Ph.D.s at the end of the road. Medical schools, for example, do a much better job of matching supply and demand.
Mark Lipton
Currently, there is an insatiable demand for people in my field. This is partially due to the competition from the private sector as well as CROs and other types of institutes. As a separate but related issue, I received exactly one CV for two job openings that was from a U.S. citizen (although some were green card holders). Not sure how long that this cycle will stay current, but it is a cycle that is bound to produce over-supply eventually.
I think in the humanities it is a terrible market for some of the reasons that Prof Loesberg points out. Departments admit many more students than they need for replacement of retiring faculty. These graduate students fund their existence by teaching (or TAing) a large share of introductory undergraduate classes. This model will always produce an over-supply.
I think every R1 university will move towards what I call the Hopkins/Harvard model. Basically, you only get tenure if you are already very well established and you are poached from another university or they are preventing you from being poached. Those at the top feed and everyone else has to fight for the crumbs. Those who survive and/or thrive in this environment stay or move up, those that don't are discarded. Unfortunately, this creates only one type of academic and that type isn't me.
Every job I've ever had has been soft money supported with a non-tenure track faculty appointment. I don't mind that since I haven't had to spend the last 6 years doing nothing but work to try to get tenure.
As for Medical schools, as I understand it, the AMA rations the number of MDs in order to keep prices at a certain level, right?
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I agree that the tenure system is in danger, though I do not think that this incident or the status of outside evaluations is the reason. Anyone who ever thought that evaluations, either inside or outside, could be kept confidential in the case of lawsuits, was disabused of that I think twenty years ago. I nevertheless do see with some regularity outside evaluations that clearly damn with faint praise. The problem with the tenure system is economic. There are more Ph.Ds than jobs to go around; scholarship, which is now largely the justifier of tenure, requires reduced course loads and (yes, yes, yes) decent compensation, while the courses must be taught and may more cheaply be taught by untenured faculty. It is nearly the case already that tenure is now reserved for an upper-class of academics. I expect, alas, that that will be more really true sooner rather than later.
Your comments are spot on, Prof (big surprise). We've seen academics go the way of corporate America with all the temp help ("Visiting Assistant Professor" and "Lecturer") that has supplanted tenure track positions. Even in my relatively employable field, we see the disconnect between the need for graduate student assistants in research and the need for more Ph.D.s at the end of the road. Medical schools, for example, do a much better job of matching supply and demand.
Mark Lipton
I think every R1 university will move towards what I call the Hopkins/Harvard model. Basically, you only get tenure if you are already very well established and you are poached from another university or they are preventing you from being poached. Those at the top feed and everyone else has to fight for the crumbs. Those who survive and/or thrive in this environment stay or move up, those that don't are discarded. Unfortunately, this creates only one type of academic and that type isn't me.
Serving on hiring committees in a Lit. department, I don't think most Universities that have research aspirations will be able to afford the Harvard/Hopkins model, which, for better or worse, is funded by an army of grad student TAs which the undergraduate body tolerates because of the status of the name brand. We need to hire even tenure track profs who will function well in the undergraduate classroom, as well as being effective scholars, so that we can draw an undergraduate body on whom we are financially dependent largely with the promise that their courses will be taught by effective and prominent faculty. We--and there are hundreds like us--can't afford the Harvard/Hopkins model. And the competition for the candidates who seem to us likely to fit that model is intense. It's like the situation with French wine. Lots of winemakers can't make any money while the few get richer and richer. There is enough demand for teacher/scholars to fund a 3 tier system in a large spread of Universities, with sufficient hope that you will be one of the lucky ones to land a top tier job to create the necessary overpopulation in Ph.D. programs to fund the lower tier jobs with highly achieved people who could be doing much better elsewhere. Marxism may not work as a system of government but we should not rush to abandon it as an economic/sociological theory of how exploitation works,
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Yule Kim:
This all sounds so bleak. I'm so glad in hindsight I didn't pursue a Ph.D. But, I feel bad for those I know who have who are having a tough time in the job search.
But on the other hand, if you can get it, being a humanities professor is one of those jobs only a complex and interesting culture could produce: you get to read interesting books, whose value is only their interest, teach their ideas and their beauties and write about them, and are paid a reasonable middle class living while being granted an unreasonable form of job security. I highly recommend it. I just wish it were more widely available.
Doug Padgett
Doug Padgett
I just wish it were more widely available.
Boy, so do I.
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Yule Kim:
This all sounds so bleak. I'm so glad in hindsight I didn't pursue a Ph.D. But, I feel bad for those I know who have who are having a tough time in the job search.
But on the other hand, if you can get it, being a humanities professor is one of those jobs only a complex and interesting culture could produce: you get to read interesting books, whose value is only their interest, teach their ideas and their beauties and write about them, and are paid a reasonable middle class living while being granted an unreasonable form of job security. I highly recommend it. I just wish it were more widely available.
It is a fantastic way to live. That's why it should be scarce.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Yule Kim:
This all sounds so bleak. I'm so glad in hindsight I didn't pursue a Ph.D. But, I feel bad for those I know who have who are having a tough time in the job search.
But on the other hand, if you can get it, being a humanities professor is one of those jobs only a complex and interesting culture could produce: you get to read interesting books, whose value is only their interest, teach their ideas and their beauties and write about them, and are paid a reasonable middle class living while being granted an unreasonable form of job security. I highly recommend it. I just wish it were more widely available.
It is a fantastic way to live. That's why it should be scarce.
Maybe that's why it is scarce. I don't see why that's why it should be scarce. In my ideal world, everybody would have enriching jobs and live well and so would I.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Thor:
You left out the opportunity to buy as much grenache as you want. If tenure means anything, it's that.
You'd be surprised how many of my colleagues seem unaware of this aspect of tenure. It regularly surprises me.