Jamie Goode: 3 cheers for RMP

So we should thank Parker for the fact that Bordeaux has been turned into undrinkable dreck and priced insanely?

I guess that's one perspective.
 
"People who are cash-rich and time-poor often have a latent interest in wine, but lack the knowledge (and cant spare the time to acquire this knowledge) to negotiate the complexities. The very real possibility of spending lots of money and ending up with mediocre wine puts people like this off."

I say fuck'em. If you can't do the time, you don't deserve any help. Learning about wine is not like creating a government in Marjah: you cannot just open a box and have it all at once.

And Sharon, is this your new day job? Scouring the web for our enjoyment and reading pleasure? How am I supposed to get any Work done around here!
 
Yeah, Cellar Tracker and the collective consciousness of the Internet have rendered Parker obsolete. At least that's what I heard down at the wine bar.
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
Who cares about Robert Parker? Time to move on folks.
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ditto
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I think that is to mistake what a large role he has had in the history of wine over the last couple of decades.

There are two main themes:

1. Impact (homogenization) of wine styles.

The perception of his palate seemed to have caused a dramatic shift in the styles of certain wines and were a model for emerging regions.

The problem with all that is that is a misinterpretation that can be blamed on the audience, to some degree.

I personally sold him multiple cases of Valette wines that were rated in the 88-92 point range (or something). I put them in his car trunk and everything.

2. Ridiculousness of the scoring system

Personally, I don't have an issue with scoring wines. I know I'm not particularly fond of Parker's scale, but I do insist that measurement is possible. It's just that no one who knows how it could be done properly cares enough to do it.

I think that the argument that any judgment about any wine has to be only a subjective assessment is ridiculous. Not only is it at odds with how human beings actually operate in the world, that sort of relativism will always reduce to absurdity.

There is a compromise relativism out there, but I've yet to hear it articulated.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Cellar Tracker always sounds like a good idea but the reality never is.
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I find it useful.

I've never searched for tasting notes, but I might glance at those that pop up when I log in.
 
In any case, it doesn't matter if Jeff Grossman (not to pick on Jeff) finds CT less useful. The generations after him are going to decide this one, and they appear to be a lot more positive.

Also, the near real-time data on aging status is, I think, a "found" killer app that no critic can really reproduce. Even if one eschews or actively dislikes all the other functions, that's an extremely valuable addition to the data.
 
I'm not a relativist, VLM. I just can't be bothered to rage against Parker instead of drinking wines I like and occasionally writing about them. I don't put much stock in tasting notes and I don't put any stock in points but I'll admit that I can get a fairly accurate idea of what a wine will be like the closer Parker scores it to 100 so if you like those types of wines (or dislike them) there is a value to his system that not many other wine writers who rely on scores and notes can claim to have. In the final analysis, however, I simply don't care. There is better things to be wasting time on (like CRB) than worrying about the outsize influence of one man.

I don't use CT except to check aging data, so Thor is spot on. If they can make this feature better, that would be all the better.
 
And it will end when he retires, at least in this country, and that's not all that many years away. I'm not going to claim that no one will ever have that level of influence again, but the way wine and all other critically-examined fields are trending, it's hard to imagine otherwise.
 
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
I'm not a relativist, VLM. I just can't be bothered to rage against Parker instead of drinking wines I like and occasionally writing about them. I don't put much stock in tasting notes and I don't put any stock in points but I'll admit that I can get a fairly accurate idea of what a wine will be like the closer Parker scores it to 100 so if you like those types of wines (or dislike them) there is a value to his system that not many other wine writers who rely on scores and notes can claim to have. In the final analysis, however, I simply don't care. There is better things to be wasting time on (like CRB) than worrying about the outsize influence of one man.
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Sure. I lived through the arc of his influence many of those years as ITB.

What is the saying, those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it?

I don't read Parker and haven't since I didn't have to and I think that one doesn't need to be aware of what goes on in the Wine Advocate to be successful ITB.

Working in Baltimore/Washington in the early to mid-90s was a different story. He drove the market locally and then went on to do it worldwide in a dramatic fashion. It was kind of amazing to watch.
 
originally posted by VLM:
I personally sold him multiple cases of Valette wines that were rated in the 88-92 point range (or something). I put them in his car trunk and everything.
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Dude.

I knew there was a reason I was having your babies.
 
I think Jamie has a point but not exactly as he's expressed it. That is, I do think Parker deserves some large amount of credit for the world-wide increase in quality of winemaking. When he first started, there was tons of plonk out there selling for high dollars. If you could put certain names on the label, you were assured of a certain minimum price, despite what was inside. Plus the French seemed to think they had to filter the hell out of all bottles shipped to the States.

Parker helped significantly in getting that changed. I'm not saying he alone - but when he complained about excessive filtration and lauded those importers who imported unfiltered wine - or shipped under temperature control - or brought in interesting quirky stuff, he helped push the market up for those things. When he exposed overly unsanitary cellar practices and bitched about it, he educated consumers to complain about it and I think that's improved the quality of winemaking. Do the current crop of winemakers deserve lots of credit for improved wine? Sure - but I think Parker helped pave the way.

Now I'm talking about his influence in the 80s. By the 90s he'd gotten so influential and middle-aged white men with more money than sense got interested in wine and the next thing you know, too many winemakers start trying to make what they perceive to be Parkerized wines. Not sure you can "blame" parker for this although I do think it is because of him it happened. So what Jamie seems to like seems to me not what Parker should be thanked for.
 
"I think that the argument that any judgment about any wine has to be only a subjective assessment is ridiculous. Not only is it at odds with how human beings actually operate in the world, that sort of relativism will always reduce to absurdity."

True, at least about how people operate, with regard to data of perception and data that can be tied to data of perception. Problematically true with regard to the evaluation of data of perception (for instance, moral judgments. At least as often thought to be false as true with regard to aesthetic evaluation by those who think seriously about the issue. Exemplarily false about evaluation of taste (that includes wine)by anyone who even considers how one person can like hamburgers and another person hate them. To bring up the ever popular Kant, who thought that we have the impression that aesthetic evaluations are objective even though they are not, he contrasted those judgments with taste in wine, which he thought everyone knew to be subjective. Of course, he didn't talk to monkeys.
 
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