TN: Weird and wacky wines at SFJoe's.

Steve? Steve, is that you?

Single blind is when people know in advance that a wine will be part of a tasting, but the wines are bagged
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But no, you've cleared it all up for me. I've got it now:

Case A -- If you bring a bottle in a bag, but tell people beforehand that you're going to bring it, that's single-blind.

Case B -- If you bring a bottle in a bag, but don't tell them beforehand that you're going to bring it, that's double-blind.

Case C -- If you don't bring a bottle in a bag, and don't tell them beforehand that you're not going to bring it, that's double-double-blind.

Case D -- If you don't bring a bottle in a bag, but do tell them beforehand that you're going to bring it, that's double-cross-blind.

Case E -- If you bring a bottle in a bag, don't tell them beforehand that you're going to bring it, but they see it subsequent to your arrival, that's three-halves blind.

Case F -- If you bring a bottle in a bag, don't tell them beforehand that you're going to bring it, and no one notices that you've brought it, that's five-halves blind. (Case Fb -- If you bring a bottle in a bag, don't tell them beforehand that you're going to bring it, and no one including you notices that you've brought it, that's infinite-blind.)

I'm unclear about what happens if you bring the wine in foil. Or, what if it falls out of the wrapping and shatters on the sidewalk before you can taste it? What if some people know you've brought it and some don't? What if the bag is constructed of material that's visible to people who can see non-standard parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, but invisible to the normally-sighted?

Boy, this blind stuff sure is hard!

But...but wait, now I see tasting order is crucial to the definition:

so you don't know exactly where it is in the tasting
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OK, so it's double-blind because, 1) they don't know you've brought it and, seeing it amongst the other wines, they have no reason to suppose any wine at all has been brought by you, and 2) they don't know where it is in the tasting and it's in a bag, thus preventing them from figuring out where it is in the tasting. Got it!

So if someone notices that the only bagged wine is at position 5 in the tasting, it's no longer double-blind to them, it's half-blind...unless they also didn't know it was going to be in the tasting at all, in which case it's double-blind minus 3/16ths for a pre-identified position. If they did know it was going to be in the tasting but can't see the bag due to the aforementioned electromagnetic variance, it's two-thirds blind. If they did know it was going to be in the tasting and can see that it's in position 5, but can't figure out exactly where it is in the tasting despite that second bit of knowledge, that's loboto-blind. And if they didn't know the wine was going to be in the tasting, can't figure out what position it's in if it is in fact there, and have the strangest feeling that a mole is squirming up their pant leg, that's 6.02214151023-blind.

It is widely used and accepted amongst wine lovers
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Yes, as this exciting and very helpful thread has clearly demonstrated! I worried for a moment or two that there was disagreement, but now I see that this isn't the case. Thanks, Brad! It's all clear to me now!
 
I think single- and double-blind are terms best used to describe flights of wine, while an unadorned "blind" is sufficient when describing a single bottle. Which is why I was thrown off by Brad's use of double-blind.
 
If you look at this thread repeatedly, you will go blind. Or grow hair on your palms. Or something.

Is there any way to cross-post stuff like this from cellartracker? I'm sure everyone on the peloton-board as well as the peloton-break-away board would love to learn all about scientific trial nomenclature, as they seem to be a bit misinformed.
 
Just to add to this nonsense, I have been to tastings where the host was equally blinded. It is done this way. Everybody brings their own wines in paper bags. The host has (as Craig Potts does) innumerable decanters. Each guest pours his wine into a numbered decanter and then bottles are disposed of. A designated re-pourer then pours all decanters into new numbered decanters, keeping a record of the number conversions. Since this pourer knows the identity of his or her own wine, he or she is then murdered and buried in the backyard. The rest of the group tastes the wines double blind (except that somewhere in there they know is the wine they brought).
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
Thanks for the note on the Nervi. I was tempted to buy it when I was in NY, but didn't get around to it. Looks like I dodged a bullet.

Did anyone try the 1965 Nervi? Any opinions? Is Nervi a good Gattinara producer?
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It was not as bad as it has been described. Depends on your interest in noble beverages which have moved beyond their optimal drinkability.
 
originally posted by .sasha:

It was not as bad as it has been described.
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This applies to almost the entire list, once you strike the wines that Brad brought.

You would do better to invert the scores and descriptions than to read them straight.

(Is the negative image something to do with the blinding?)
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Just to add to this nonsense, I have been to tastings where the host was equally blinded. It is done this way. Everybody brings their own wines in paper bags. The host has (as Craig Potts does) innumerable decanters. Each guest pours his wine into a numbered decanter and then bottles are disposed of. A designated re-pourer then pours all decanters into new numbered decanters, keeping a record of the number conversions. Since this pourer knows the identity of his or her own wine, he or she is then murdered and buried in the backyard. The rest of the group tastes the wines double blind (except that somewhere in there they know is the wine they brought).
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We've done something similar, but we dumped the pourer's body under a bridge instead of burying it. Would you say that's the same as your scheme, or something fundamentally different?

For some reason this thread is bringing up memories of something I read somewhere that asserted the best musicians are not the merely virtuosic, but those who have learned to incorporate space into their playing...
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
Thanks for the note on the Nervi. I was tempted to buy it when I was in NY, but didn't get around to it. Looks like I dodged a bullet.

Did anyone try the 1965 Nervi? Any opinions? Is Nervi a good Gattinara producer?
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I've never had a 1965 Nervi (not nervie enough, I suppose) but they were a good producer during that era. The problem is that Gattinara of that age seems to be a bottle-by-bottle proposition. My favorite producer from that time frame is the Monsecco Conte Ravizza Gattinara from Agricola Le Colline. They seem to pop up at auction regularly and don't cost a whole lot. There's definitely bottle variation but given proper aeration, a "good" bottle is usually a great one.

-Eden (getting dizzy from all this talk of "blind" and "double blind" and "half blind"...I'm of the school of thought of "there are none so blind as they that cannot see". I think Ray Charles came up with that one)
 
originally posted by Steve Guattery:
For some reason this thread is bringing up memories of something I read somewhere that asserted the best musicians are not the merely virtuosic, but those who have learned to incorporate space into their playing...
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That must have been on some other bored.
 
originally posted by Steve Guattery:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Just to add to this nonsense, I have been to tastings where the host was equally blinded. It is done this way. Everybody brings their own wines in paper bags. The host has (as Craig Potts does) innumerable decanters. Each guest pours his wine into a numbered decanter and then bottles are disposed of. A designated re-pourer then pours all decanters into new numbered decanters, keeping a record of the number conversions. Since this pourer knows the identity of his or her own wine, he or she is then murdered and buried in the backyard. The rest of the group tastes the wines double blind (except that somewhere in there they know is the wine they brought).
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We've done something similar, but we dumped the pourer's body under a bridge instead of burying it. Would you say that's the same as your scheme, or something fundamentally different?
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That depends on how you choose the pourer you plan to kill. I have always been fond of the Shirley Jackson method as the fairest. But numbers of people prefer to choose some member of the group known for bringing wine people don't like, having divergent tastes, or taking pours that others consider too big.
 
I nominate the guy who brought spiced Michigan apple wine to an offline in the Boston exurbs and then left without paying. Which I believe was the second time in about a month that this had happened to Bob Ross, who was at our table.
 
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