You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
sulfur
- Thread starter Cory Cartwright
- Start date
Joel Stewart
Joel Stewart
originally posted by Oliver McCrum:
I agree. Oxidised wines start to taste like each other, not the place they're from.
My feeling is that this is a separate issue.
Guilhaume is keeping him on a short leash. He doesn't want any computers in his vicinity to become unnaturally accustomed to proper grammar and/or spelling.So has Cory devolved to pure trolling, or can we drag him into the conversation?
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
Guilhaume's using words again?
U
Unknown
Guest
yes.originally posted by Thor:
Guilhaume is keeping him on a short leash. He doesn't want any computers in his vicinity to become unnaturally accustomed to proper grammar and/or spelling.So has Cory devolved to pure trolling, or can we drag him into the conversation?
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Guilhaume's using words again?
No.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
You should have responded with a picture.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
You should have responded with a picture.
(smiley)
lol!
(smiley)
Cory Cartwright
Cory Cartwright
we've tasted some wines this week where sans-soufre seems to be a decision based simply on sans-soufre as a philosophy. We've also tasted some sans-soufre wines where a lot of work (both farming and elevage) went into getting wines that are stable enough to be sans-soufre. The difference is dramatic.originally posted by SFJoe:
So has Cory devolved to pure trolling, or can we drag him into the conversation?
Oliver McCrum
Oliver McCrum
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
You mean like Sherry or whites from the Jura?originally posted by Oliver McCrum:
I agree. Oxidised wines start to taste like each other, not the place they're from.
No, not like that. Not like Tawny Port, Liqueur Muscat, Vernaccia di Oristano or Madeira either.
As I understand it Vin Jaune and some sherries are aged under oxidative circumstances in barrel, under film yeast; other sherries are fortified to 18% or so before oxidative aging. The results of either method are obviously different from a normally vinified white wine that has turned golden and aldeyhdic due to inadequate protection from SO2 in the bottle.
This may be a professional deformation, in that the wines I import have shown these qualities because the producer didn't understand the level of SO2 necessary to protect the wine when exported (as opposed to when shipped around the coast to Naples). In other words the oxidative qualities were not intentional. I have never found this kind of oxidation in bottle appealing, in contrast to the wine types where it's intentional and attractive.
I would add that techniques such as those used in the Jura or Jerez do leave a clear stamp on the wine; three excellent Amontillados should be different from each other but they are still marked by the way they were made. Maybe wine is like cheese, in that both the raw material and the method of production are part of the intrinsic nature of the thing. Vin Jaune and Stilton are both marked by the way they are made, and can both be excellent.
Ha! I was right! (little dance of self-congratulation)we've tasted some wines this week where sans-soufre seems to be a decision based simply on sans-soufre as a philosophy. We've also tasted some sans-soufre wines where a lot of work (both farming and elevage) went into getting wines that are stable enough to be sans-soufre. The difference is dramatic.
But you know, it's not a "philosophy," and you cannot disagree because you do not have a PhD in philosophy, etc., etc., etc. A week in the Piedmont and you've learned nothing. I blame Guilhaume.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Thor:
Ha! I was right! (little dance of self-congratulation)we've tasted some wines this week where sans-soufre seems to be a decision based simply on sans-soufre as a philosophy. We've also tasted some sans-soufre wines where a lot of work (both farming and elevage) went into getting wines that are stable enough to be sans-soufre. The difference is dramatic.
But you know, it's not a "philosophy," and you cannot disagree because you do not have a PhD in philosophy, etc., etc., etc. A week in the Piedmont and you've learned nothing. I blame Guilhaume.
Thanks.
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
we've tasted some wines this week where sans-soufre seems to be a decision based simply on sans-soufre as a philosophy. We've also tasted some sans-soufre wines where a lot of work (both farming and elevage) went into getting wines that are stable enough to be sans-soufre. The difference is dramatic.
I agree. According to my experience and my Merck RQFlex, the latter ones almost always show some sulfur at analysis...
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
we've tasted some wines this week where sans-soufre seems to be a decision based simply on sans-soufre as a philosophy. We've also tasted some sans-soufre wines where a lot of work (both farming and elevage) went into getting wines that are stable enough to be sans-soufre. The difference is dramatic.
I agree. According to my experience and my Merck RQFlex, the latter ones almost always show some sulfur at analysis...
meaning they liars? or meaning there is a higher content of sulfur occuring naturaly?
originally posted by guilhaume:
meaning they liars? or meaning there is a higher content of sulfur occuring naturaly?
I guess both?
But really I have never seen more than 20ppm occuring naturally with native yeasts on any of my wines.
And I would say that not a lot of the sans souffre wines I checked were below this.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by guilhaume:
meaning they liars? or meaning there is a higher content of sulfur occuring naturaly?
I guess both?
But really I have never seen more than 20ppm occuring naturally with native yeasts on any of my wines.
And I would say that not a lot of the sans souffre wines I checked were below this.
i guess both as well, but dont you think some terroirs, winemaking or viticulture techniques can affect the amount of sulfur occuring naturally?
originally posted by guilhaume:
i guess both as well, but dont you think some terroirs, winemaking or viticulture techniques can affect the amount of sulfur occuring naturally?
Why should I know?
This has never been studied to my knowledge.
What I know is that most of the good vignerons who used to be well known for their bright and pure "sans souffre" wines are announcing " juste la mise" these days...
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by guilhaume:
i guess both as well, but dont you think some terroirs, winemaking or viticulture techniques can affect the amount of sulfur occuring naturally?
Why should I know?
This has never been studied to my knowledge.
What I know is that most of the good vignerons who used to be well known for their bright and pure "sans souffre" wines are announcing " juste la mise" these days...
i mean, you work on different soils for example, with different grapes. Don't you think it's possible that chalk and pinot brings different amounts of naturally occuring sulfur than chalk and chardonnay? Or slate vs marne and so on...
and yes, thank god, a lot of the sans soufre fanatics are finally starting to understand their wines better, but there's a whole generation of new vignerons taking over in the same old philosophy...
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Well put, but to my palate "spoilage" means this natural wine tastes like that natural wine (no matter the producer)......which is to say terroir, typicity and vintage characteristics are thrown out the window in the name of naturalism.
What happens post-harvest is essentially a balance between entropy and preservation. A lot of the naturals (and Naturals) seem to be comfortable steering nearer to the shores of Advanced Entropy than has been traditionally viewed as being acceptable (with notable exceptions for certain wines of long-standing like rancios, etc).
Might not be to your liking (or mine, for that matter).
But if it is intentional then I'm not sure that "spoilage" is the right word.
Cheers,