All states of barreldom. The barrels themselves didn't smell like chlorine, but it was certainly in the air. And no need to email you the winery, as its name very nearly guarantees that it cannot ever be sold in the U.S. Which it is not. So unless you're going to visit wineries in the Roero, I'd rather not sully their reputation further. Apologies in hopes of your understanding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
I dunno. This tasting note seemed funnier after two glasses of wine watching Family Guy
- Thread starter SteveTimko
- Start date
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
I've often heard of this low to no sensitivity thing and I don't understand it. How could ones sense of smell be generally normal but not be able to detect TCA? What else is not detected? Is one then extra sensitive to other aromas?
Same reason there are those who can't smell asparagus pee. Everyone has different 'sesitivities' and we must be sensitive to this.
Different sensitivities is one thing, but mostly normal sensitivity combined with none? That's what seems odd.
Considering how widely divergent perceptions of wine aromas apparently are, it's amazing the
amount of consensus there seems to be. And by that I mean that critics can make a living.
originally posted by Thor:
Critics don't actually make their living on the "correctness" of identified characteristics.
Silly me.
There's been a lot of discussion of this. I don't have time to resummarize, but the search function might find something useful.originally posted by Ned Hoey:
Different sensitivities is one thing, but mostly normal sensitivity combined with none? That's what seems odd.
originally posted by SFJoe:
There's been a lot of discussion of this. I don't have time to resummarize, but the search function might find something useful.originally posted by Ned Hoey:
Different sensitivities is one thing, but mostly normal sensitivity combined with none? That's what seems odd.
OK, thanks.
I got to know TCA at a shop that sold tasting flights. I'd be tasting through 6 or 8 glasses of say, white Burgundy, in that context the corked wines were often hard to miss.
Joel Stewart
Joel Stewart
Is it possible that a person can identify the smell of actual moldy newspaper, wet dog, etc., but not identify such in a wine?
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
I remember doing a staff training several years ago - I was leading the training - and somebody had to tell me the wine we were tasting was corked. Now I am more apt than many others to call corked. Change happens. I remember specifically when I finally got a handle on what oxidation tasted like in a red wine. I had held down some prestigious gigs before that realization.
The right BTG program can really help with that.originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I remember specifically when I finally got a handle on what oxidation tasted like in a red wine.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
Interesting remark, and one that makes me wonder once again why there is only one word in English ("oxidation") for what are considered two distinct phenomena in French. A wine open too long (to the air) is "vent," whereas a wine that's oxidized through cork permeability or improper storage or whatnot is "oxyd."
There should be an English equivalent for vent.
There should be an English equivalent for vent.
SteveTimko
Steve Timko
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Is it possible that a person can identify the smell of actual moldy newspaper, wet dog, etc., but not identify such in a wine?
A grape I don't get is cabernet sauvignon and it often smells like moldy newspaper to me, especially if it's aged. When I describe this smell in a cab I don't like others will try to rationalize it by saying it's corked when three or four other wine geeks sensitive to TCA at the time I tasted it did not piok up on it being corked.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
On oxidation and overexposure, whether we need an English equivalent depends on whether the two phenomena are in fact different. I defer to the chemists on the board for the answer to that. I have found the French use the word fatigu, by the way, to refer loosely to both phenomena (as well as just being over the hill) so there is some recognition of similarity.
A different issue: at a tasting last week, a wine seemed corked to me. The person doing the tasting said that that was a funkiness that was a feature of the wine. I have heard this explanation before. Since as salestalk it is counterproductive (if it is a feature of the wine, I will certainly not buy it, whereas if it is a flawed bottle, I might if I tasted another one), I'm assuming that people who say this believe it. And for all I know, they may be right. Is it the case that there is a feature in unflawed wines that tastes enough like TCA as to make the difference indistinguishable?
A different issue: at a tasting last week, a wine seemed corked to me. The person doing the tasting said that that was a funkiness that was a feature of the wine. I have heard this explanation before. Since as salestalk it is counterproductive (if it is a feature of the wine, I will certainly not buy it, whereas if it is a flawed bottle, I might if I tasted another one), I'm assuming that people who say this believe it. And for all I know, they may be right. Is it the case that there is a feature in unflawed wines that tastes enough like TCA as to make the difference indistinguishable?
Bleh. What a nasty idea.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Is it the case that there is a feature in unflawed wines that tastes enough like TCA as to make the difference indistinguishable?
There are certainly famous and obscure wineries with contamination issues somewhere in the process and all their wines are tainted with TCA or a chemical cousin.
Hard to call it a feature, even if you were as bold as Micrsoft in the old gag.
They are similar but not the same, in something like the way microox isn't the same as having an open tank. A slow trickle of oxygen will react with the fastest things in the wine, while a big wash of oxygen will get those and others. So you'll have some of the same products, but different ones too.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
On oxidation and overexposure, whether we need an English equivalent depends on whether the two phenomena are in fact different. I defer to the chemists on the board for the answer to that. I have found the French use the word fatigu, by the way, to refer loosely to both phenomena (as well as just being over the hill) so there is some recognition of similarity.
On TCA-alikes, I once got in an argument with the otherwise flawless (or maybe beyond perfection) Laurence Viron about a Cte-Rtie that I felt was corked, but she insisted was just showing its inherent character. Since she and her then husband had opened their entire restaurant and assembled the entire cheese chariot for just us and our three-hour meal, I really couldn't bring myself to complain too much, so we drank the bottle anyway. If she was right -- which I don't think she was -- then there's definitely something that does a pretty good impression.
On oxidation, I agree with Joe that the two express themselves differently; open-bottle oxidation is a total numbing of the wine, while closed-bottle oxidation leaves some things relatively intact (and in that way, is more frustrating, because one can often taste suggestions of what one has missed). I don't know if that means we really need two different words, though. "This has been open too long," while admittedly lacking brevity and elegance, seems to get the point across OK, if one is averse to pretentious PhD chemistry geek words like "oxidized."
On oxidation, I agree with Joe that the two express themselves differently; open-bottle oxidation is a total numbing of the wine, while closed-bottle oxidation leaves some things relatively intact (and in that way, is more frustrating, because one can often taste suggestions of what one has missed). I don't know if that means we really need two different words, though. "This has been open too long," while admittedly lacking brevity and elegance, seems to get the point across OK, if one is averse to pretentious PhD chemistry geek words like "oxidized."
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Interesting remark, and one that makes me wonder once again why there is only one word in English ("oxidation") for what are considered two distinct phenomena in French. A wine open too long (to the air) is "vent," whereas a wine that's oxidized through cork permeability or improper storage or whatnot is "oxyd."
There should be an English equivalent for vent.
And what's the word for those wines oxidized through the deliberate actions of the winemaker? [need one of those stirring the pot icons]
Mark Lipton
Matteo Mollo
Matteo Mollo
When I describe this smell in a cab I don't like others...
cash cab?
originally posted by SFJoe:
Bleh. What a nasty idea.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Is it the case that there is a feature in unflawed wines that tastes enough like TCA as to make the difference indistinguishable?
There are certainly famous and obscure wineries with contamination issues somewhere in the process and all their wines are tainted with TCA or a chemical cousin.
Hard to call it a feature, even if you were as bold as Micrsoft in the old gag.
As you yourself have noted, older Chenin can easily be mistakenly associated with TCA taint because of that bergamot-like flavor lurking within.
Mark Lipton
"Glass pours at Terroir."And what's the word for those wines oxidized through the deliberate actions of the winemaker? [need one of those stirring the pot icons]
originally posted by Thor:
"Glass pours at Terroir."And what's the word for those wines oxidized through the deliberate actions of the winemaker? [need one of those stirring the pot icons]
OK, you can have the frickin' icon instead, Thor. Now, let it be known that of the four wines I tasted at Terroir on Tuesday, not a one showed any sign of oxidation, even in the eyes of my oxidophobic spouse (who found an '07 Savary Chablis VV just at her limits of tolerance on Sunday). The wines in question were two '07 Huets (sec and demi-), a cloudy Prosecco and a wacky frizzante Ferrando Erbaluce (about which I had to get info from Dagan, who was pouring).
Mark Lipton